Sydney Subbies 2020

[Pfitzy]

Meldrum to come.

I should also say: Halligan will be Colleagues

Got Meldrum and the 16-0 scoreline reflects (more than anything) the opportunities Brothers perhaps squandered. Savers' discipline in defence was magnificent.

Missed Colleagues. Wow they fell apart under the slightest pressure and should maybe play more and talk less.

 

[Heavyd]

Subbies management is tired, uninspired and like most of Rugby officialdom, utterly clueless when it comes to connecting with the Rugby rank and file. In what universe would you push Div 2 GF's to the backblocks of Chester Hill? Seriously, it's just the tip of the iceberg, the same suspects running Subbies into the ground for years, would not last five minutes in a real commercial environment

I can confirm Sefton is the arse end of the world and should never be used again.
Our blokes were delighted to be playing at Macquarie after last weeks 1.5hr trek out and talking to the couple of lower grade div 2 finals players on the back oval so we’re they. We’re their crowds allowed?

Macquarie Uni could have held 3000 people safety yesterday. Luckily it was only 300/400 as They ran out of beer twice with the final time at halftime in 1st grade.

 

[Heavyd]

Watched replay of some of Savers vs Brothers today. What’s Manly Savers story? Are they Marlin rejects as they looked pretty handy. Do they field more than one team? Loved the social distanced sideline crowd so hopefully Sendit doesn’t see it as he would have a coronary.

 

[Bernie]

Can confirm they are not Marlin's rejects. Seem to have a constant supply of South American backpackers with a large proportion of solid Clubman. Have been very consistent front runners in Div 6 over the years but lacking in consistent numbers to make the move up a division. Speaking from experience from having played against them for many years.

 

[Pfitzy]

Concur with the above. We played against them for a few years and they are a core of long term Savers Club men with the recent addition of very committed and passionate Argentineans. They've been in the finals the last few years with no luck but stuck with it and finally got their chance.

Brothers are no mugs, I might add.

Savers are looking to grow but have struggled to make it happen with so many other big clubs nearby.

 

[sendit]

Loved the social distanced sideline crowd so hopefully Sendit doesn’t see it as he would have a coronary.

lol get that chip off your shoulder champ

 

[HeavyB]

Got Meldrum and the 16-0 scoreline reflects (more than anything) the opportunities Brothers perhaps squandered. Savers' discipline in defence was magnificent.

100% better team won on the night - well deserved. Savers organisation in defence was absolutely unbelievable. We did butcher a few but they were like a wall. They didn't concede a point in their semi or GF. Our boys were camped in their 22 for basically half an hour and came away with nothing when we missed a pen and I felt like it was over then.

Our boys have averaged 42 points per game this season, if you'd have told me we wouldn't score a point, I'd have laughed.

I was shocked and impressed, based on scorelines we were putting up V savers, I expected a 20 point or so win. They do nothing spectacular but they just suck the life out of you. Real Northern Hemisphere flavour.

 

[Pfitzy]

I was shocked and impressed, based on scorelines we were putting up V savers, I expected a 20 point or so win. They do nothing spectacular but they just suck the life out of you. Real Northern Hemisphere flavour.

Their close win against Lane Cove was somewhat marred by a refereeing performance that one could describe as questionable. Otherwise they should have racked up about 30.

Ultimately their "Against" of <10 per game is where the effort lies. The clubs like Oysters and Irish or Raptors were doing similar numbers.

 

[HeavyB]

Their close win against Lane Cove was somewhat marred by a refereeing performance that one could describe as questionable. Otherwise they should have racked up about 30.

Ultimately their "Against" of <10 per game is where the effort lies. The clubs like Oysters and Irish or Raptors were doing similar numbers.

Fair enough, unbelievable defence. I honestly think we would have had 60%+ plus possession and probably even more in terms of territory and came away with fuck all. 16-0 score probably equally not fair to our boys, was a lot closer game than that.

It was rugby rope-a-dope.

 

[Bernie]

Their close win against Lane Cove was somewhat marred by a refereeing performance that one could describe as questionable. Otherwise they should have racked up about 30.

Ultimately their "Against" of <10 per game is where the effort lies. The clubs like Oysters and Irish or Raptors were doing similar numbers.

I disagree with the reference to the refereeing performance. Savers yellow card early in that game came from repeated indiscretions in their 22 while under attack . I think it was Confusius who said 'once you get the ref offside it's hard to get him back'.....Honestly I think it was more a case of Savers saving their worst game of the year for us and our combinations finally clicking.

 

[Bernie]

Might also add when Brothers served our arses on a platter in Round 4 made us reassess our structure which started with Wakehurst but clicked, as mentioned above, against Savers and was successful against Chatswood.

 

[Pfitzy]

I disagree with the reference to the refereeing performance. Savers yellow card early in that game came from repeated indiscretions in their 22 while under attack .

Yep and that's 10 minutes of the game they were down a man. They played the majority of the game with 15 and still only managed an 8 point win.

I think it was Confusius who said 'once you get the ref offside it's hard to get him back'...Honestly I think it was more a case of Savers saving their worst game of the year for us and our combinations finally clicking.

It could be that - and I realise everyone's perception of the game will be different.

In conversation with Savers a while after the game they were still seething. His opening statement to Savers pre-match was about them not rolling away from the ruck in a game he had with them last season and how they wouldn't get away with it this time.

So what does Confucius think when you've got the ref offside before a ball has been kicked? That's a preconception, and has no place in the game.

---------------

We had the same ref earlier this year and his opening statement to our players pre-match was "I had you guys at one game last year and you wouldn't stand under the goal posts after they scored - that won't be happening again". Another preconception.

There were a litany of other issues in that game that I won't go into, suffice to say he talks down to the players like they're schoolboys, won't take recommendations from qualified officials, missed basic stuff like ARs flagging touch, and didn't even know he had to give out player points (which also happened last year).

 

[BJT]

Yep and that's 10 minutes of the game they were down a man. They played the majority of the game with 15 and still only managed an 8 point win.





It could be that - and I realise everyone's perception of the game will be different.

In conversation with Savers a while after the game they were still seething. His opening statement to Savers pre-match was about them not rolling away from the ruck in a game he had with them last season and how they wouldn't get away with it this time.

So what does Confucius think when you've got the ref offside before a ball has been kicked? That's a preconception, and has no place in the game.

---------------

We had the same ref earlier this year and his opening statement to our players pre-match was "I had you guys at one game last year and you wouldn't stand under the goal posts after they scored - that won't be happening again". Another preconception.

There were a litany of other issues in that game that I won't go into, suffice to say he talks down to the players like they're schoolboys, won't take recommendations from qualified officials, missed basic stuff like ARs flagging touch, and didn't even know he had to give out player points (which also happened last year).

Referring isn't an easy job but he is shambolic....two Div 2 clubs put in complaints about his performance in separate games this year for similar issues around focusing on one side.

 

[Pfitzy]

Referring isn't an easy job but he is shambolic..two Div 2 clubs put in complaints about his performance in separate games this year for similar issues around focusing on one side.

It is a bastard of a job some days with players the way they are

He's otherwise fit enough to keep up with the action and has the knowledge. However: objectivity of decision making is required. Post-match at both our game and Savers he behaved very strangely.

 

[Heavyd]

Now that the dust has settled on Mad Monday. My weekend takeaways

Div 2
Hunters head to Div 1 on a high after Premierships in 1st and 2nd grade. They will look to build lower grade strength in the off season as their 3s and 4s appear average and you'll need all the depth you can muster for a full season of Div 1.
BOBs Colts will be disappointed after going undefeated through the season to cop a touch up on GF day. Hopefully BOBs can muster another grade or two and stay up in Div 2 next year otherwise I'm hearing Iggies might get an invite in their place.
The RAMs and UNSW claiming the lower grades before a vocal crowd on the back oval.

Div 3
Iggies 3rds always looked a little too polished for Beecroft in their tight encounter.
Newport Colts missing 5 from injury made hard work of it dominating much of the first half but couldn't turn that pressure into points (including missing a penalty dead in front 10 m out). In the end they had to pullout something special into the wind in the 2nd half to overcome a willing Beecroft.
Newport 2nds blew Iggies off the park after the game was evenly poised 5-5 at halftime. Iggies had no answers when the Breakers number 10 hit the Benji Marshall button and carved them up off the back of a dominant pack.
In 1st grade the lead changed hands 4 times before Newport forwards achieved scrum domination and were able to seal the big one making it 3 from 3.

Worth calling out that Newport made the tough call a few years ago and voluntarily went down a DIV when they didn't have the numbers to field the required grades, how long do players hang around when you ask them to back up, week in week for two full games. Its a club killer and you burn good club man. The combination of the rugby cycle with players, an energetic new President and quality coaches proves its better to take the medicine early, hold on for dear life in the lean years and wait for the cycle than hang on to long and watch it go beyond repair. This is not a criticism of other clubs, but Balmain and Brothers come to mind as those that held on for a season too long and lost control of their descent. Heavyb, I know you had previously argued for a drop or Saints merger but the 'Old heads" said tough it out a season or so ago.

 

[Pfitzy]

This is not a criticism of other clubs, but Balmain and Brothers come to mind as those that held on for a season too long and lost control of their descent.

Kings Old Boys being a notable example as well - stayed on in Div 3 when they damn well knew they didn't have the cattle.

 

[Pfitzy]

Lower divisions - well this should be interesting.

A few clubs benefited from there being no rugby league competitions in play, so that will be something to consider when it comes to retention and stability. Others got players attracted by a short season when they were basically captive on the weekends - why not play rugby when you can't go overseas?

So COVID will be the biggest factor in who does what. Another challenge is going to be the shape of Premier Rugby in the new world, and that depends on TV deals as well as COVID.

My back of napkin figures, which include assumptions and conversations directly with some of these clubs:

THREE Grades: Canterbury, Raptors
Floaters for 2-3: Renegades, Saints, Balmain, Brothers, Mac Uni
TWO Grades: Irish, Oysters
Floaters for 1-2: Dukes, Savers, Wakehurst, Convicts
ONE Grade: Chatswood, Lane Cove, Burraneer, Engadine, KOBs, Merrylands, Sea Lice, Combined Forces, Maccabi
In Danger: Dee Why/Terrey Hills, Oatley

However I look at Stags and Covies and their squad sizes, and wonder about sustainability. Both proud clubs with long histories, but the same guys fronting up on and off the field, and nobody getting any younger.

 

[HeavyB]

Now that the dust has settled on Mad Monday. My weekend takeaways

Heavyb, I know you had previously argued for a drop or Saints merger but the 'Old heads" said tough it out a season or so ago.

Been good this year, I think we played Halligans 7 out of a possible 8 weeks or something.

I was surprised when we were dropped all the way to a 1 team comp, numbers wise we always had 2 teams, even if they 2nd wasn't the best quality.I'

Club is in good hands off the field, also starting to see a healthy flow of young players from Pius again, and in a weird way, not having a Colts has actually made it so they're immediately a more central part of the club.

I've left Sydney now so no longer involved but they're definitely heading in the right direction.

 

[Heavyd]

Been good this year, I think we played Halligans 7 out of a possible 8 weeks or something.

I was surprised when we were dropped all the way to a 1 team comp, numbers wise we always had 2 teams, even if they 2nd wasn't the best quality.I'

Club is in good hands off the field, also starting to see a healthy flow of young players from Pius again, and in a weird way, not having a Colts has actually made it so they're immediately a more central part of the club.

I've left Sydney now so no longer involved but they're definitely heading in the right direction.

You in the big house Heavyb, how long did you get?

 

[Pfitzy]

I was surprised when we were dropped all the way to a 1 team comp, numbers wise we always had 2 teams, even if they 2nd wasn't the best quality.I'

The issues were around the number of clubs who wanted to push for 2 teams.

In retrospect, Maccabi were probably stretching, and Convicts would have benefited more from playing Halligan than 2nd Grade. Particularly against some of the stronger clubs in Div 4.

The feedback from particular clubs firmed up Fourth Division fairly quickly, while others like Balmain and Mac Uni were still uncertain until after 8 clubs were locked in.

We might see 2 Divisions with 2 Grades next year, and hopefully graded to even out the competition.