Sydney Subbies 2019

[Rugby Central]

From what I have seen of Oatley in last few years was more a squad of players. There was some noticeable talent in 3s but with many of the same blokes backing up into 2s and 1s, where the level of comp is very much a step up, they struggled. However the squad approach is very common across Div 4, with many teams making finals in 3s off the back of higher grade players. Nothing new.

You could say much the same about Lindfield. Going on the score sheets, every season they seem to put out 2 fairly strong 2nd grade teams. Unfortunately one of them has to play in 1st grade. I think they are a the best example of the difference between playing good park rugby and competitive 1st grade football.

 

[footy_footy]

Same with St Pats, their 4s came minor premiers and comfortably took out the title with some overqualified 4th grade players whilst 3rd grade ran dead last and 2nd last in 2s. That's been the case at St Pats with 4th grade and 3rd grade for quite some time. It's just a reality of subbies rugby.

 

[Heavyd]

Same with St Pats, their 4s came minor premiers and comfortably took out the title with some overqualified 4th grade players whilst 3rd grade ran dead last and 2nd last in 2s. That's been the case at St Pats with 4th grade and 3rd grade for quite some time. It's just a reality of subbies rugby.

Generally that tells me they dont have the numbers for a 3rd grade, and it a combo of backing up and a few other club men putting out a 3rds.

 

[footy_footy]

Generally that tells me they dont have the numbers for a 3rd grade, and it a combo of backing up and a few other club men putting out a 3rds.

Correct and St Pats have obviously decided a 4th grade premiership is preferable to a mid table 3s finish.

 

[HeavyB]

Looks like Saints intend to play div 3 but without a 3rd grade if they are allowed to.

 

[The Burke]

So they only have 2 teams? That is ridiculous. They will be aware that dropping to div 4 will kill the club off and very little likelihood they would get back to higher divs. If they don't have the numbers, move them to div 5.
I would love to see a club like Irish get promoted to Div 3. They had numbers and going up might help attract a few more into the setup. Don't see anyone else in Div 4 who could step up.

 

[Heavyd]

So they only have 2 teams? That is ridiculous. They will be aware that dropping to div 4 will kill the club off and very little likelihood they would get back to higher divs. If they don't have the numbers, move them to div 5.
I would love to see a club like Irish get promoted to Div 3. They had numbers and going up might help attract a few more into the setup. Don't see anyone else in Div 4 who could step up.

2 grades + colts. I’m sure Newport will support their inclusion as they need games that aren’t 90 mins away

 

[The Burke]

2 grades + colts. Sounds like Lane Cove will be Div 3 bound based on that. I would think Mac Uni would do 2 grades and colts, probably 3 + colts. I believe Blacktown are trying for 3 + colts as well. I suppose the question is will saints stand a chance of being competitive? Player safety needs to be considered and maybe the club needs to put the pride aside. That sounds a few injuries off being down to 1 grade.
It use to be the case that you could drop divs if needed and build/buy your way back up.

 

[The Burke]

Was chatting to a Brisbane mate who was telling me about the social Friday night comp they have. He loved it as it was social like Halligans cup but better organised. Plus you played on a Friday, went out after and still had the rest of the weekend free. Seemed a bit like the old u85kg comp. Was wondering if something like this would work here.

 

[HeavyB]

2 grades + colts. I’m sure Newport will support their inclusion as they need games that aren’t 90 mins away

Will you support Brothers inclusion too on that basis?

 

[HeavyB]

2 grades + colts. Sounds like Lane Cove will be Div 3 bound based on that. I would think Mac Uni would do 2 grades and colts, probably 3 + colts. I believe Blacktown are trying for 3 + colts as well. I suppose the question is will saints stand a chance of being competitive? Player safety needs to be considered and maybe the club needs to put the pride aside. That sounds a few injuries off being down to 1 grade.
It use to be the case that you could drop divs if needed and build/buy your way back up.

Hard to see they will be. Going from last year we came 5th and beat them 83-0 in 1sts. I believe Newport came 2nd last and still beat them by 20 or 30.

 

[Pfitzy]

So they only have 2 teams? That is ridiculous. They will be aware that dropping to div 4 will kill the club off and very little likelihood they would get back to higher divs. If they don't have the numbers, move them to div 5.

So Div 4 will kill them off, but moving them to Div 5 is somehow going to work for numbers?

In Div 4 they could use their Colts as a Third Grade, at least, bolstered by a few old heads who want a 60 minute game.

The aspirational angle will definitely kill a club tho - Kings OB are a perfect example. Not dead yet but spent some time on life support.

 

[The Burke]

So Div 4 will kill them off, but moving them to Div 5 is somehow going to work for numbers?

In Div 4 they could use their Colts as a Third Grade, at least, bolstered by a few old heads who want a 60 minute game.

The aspirational angle will definitely kill a club tho - Kings OB are a perfect example. Not dead yet but spent some time on life support.

Not trying to disrespect div 5, just feel they would have a better chance of being competitive there. And would allow colts to play colts, which is what they want to play. You will find them quickly departing to another club with colts.
My point about the club struggling in div 4, is that young kids don't stick around at a club, especially on the north shore where options are plentiful, to play clubs like Blacktown and Canterbury etc. And the quality of refs allows for some questionable actions that young and old blokes ask why they are signing up for it. As I said, plenty of easier options available to them. Few people are true club men nowadays.
I would definitely say that things have gotten better in div 4. But it is very competitive.
The only teams who have been able to rise back out of div4 in recent years
Beecroft - should never have been allowed to drop to div4
Redfield - had a pretty special team
Brothers - magically recruited Gordon players

If you go back far enough, Balmain, got promoted without actually winning anything, Knox, started their rise from ashes and had a team that took them back to div1. Not sure if I have missed any, but I would suggest it is very hard for a club to jump up out of div4. For saints, if you can't figure out who in the div are the bunnies, it is you.

 

[Pfitzy]

Understood.

Issue is not every club is going to field 2 Grades in Division 5, so that might be worse than having the odd cricket score in Div 4 + Radford.

 

[Pfitzy]

I would suggest it is very hard for a club to jump up out of div4.

On this point, I'd flip that around and say: It is bloody hard to cut into the hegemony that is the top 3 Divisions. Yes, adding a Colts side is the tough part, as you need to have a juniors base to call on for that. But the promotion/relegation rotary door in the top 3 divs is the really hard bit.

 

[Rugby Central]

If you go back far enough, Balmain, got promoted without actually winning anything, Knox, started their rise from ashes and had a team that took them back to div1. Not sure if I have missed any, but I would suggest it is very hard for a club to jump up out of div4. For saints, if you can't figure out who in the div are the bunnies, it is you.

Balmain did a lot of marketing and promotion to raise their profile and recruit. Also being able to piss Drummoyne off generally adds to one's popularity. They simply became too much to ignore.

Knox were only down there because of disciplinary reasons, not through struggling for players. They were always headed back up.

 

[Seagull Butler]

If you go back far enough, Balmain, got promoted without actually winning anything, Knox, started their rise from ashes and had a team that took them back to div1. Not sure if I have missed any, but I would suggest it is very hard for a club to jump up out of div4. For saints, if you can't figure out who in the div are the bunnies, it is you.

Without restarting the argument of who did/didn't pay, the problem with going back far enough is that you enter territory where teams were able to spend money on the players who helped them move up/stay up divisions.

It would be harder I imagine for a Div 4 team to use a 'prestige' argument (read ego) to excite suitably talented players (i.e. Shute) to move to the club, to help them move into Div 3, then it would for a Div 2 team to push for Div 1. Payments could even that out if the Div 4 team offered had more money though.

 

[Bernie]

Word on the street is that Blue Mountains have lost the gun winger they had last year to league with St Clair for match payments of $800......

 

[Crashy]

I'd love to see how league survives if/when the money dries up. Does anyone play senior league without getting paid? surely thats the wrong foundation for a game?!?

 

[footy_footy]

Word on the street is that Blue Mountains have lost the gun winger they had last year to league with St Clair for match payments of $800..

I saw that Saiyasi Ikanidrodro was named in Gordon's mens 7s team on the weekend just gone by. He was the winger nominated for the Div 2 medal. Either way, St Clair or Gordon, I don't think he will be playing at Lapstone this year. I'm sure Blueys would have some replacements ready to go, there is no doubt he is a massive loss. He carved up every opposition all year!