Sydney Subbies 2018

[Pfitzy]

And having graded comps in those lower grades is a great idea, but you run into the problems of player retention, which is quite frankly, the main thing that dictates your position in the different divisions.

No club currently in Division 5 or 6 is capable of reaching Division 3. Unless they are allowed to pay players ongoing.

 

[laura.ainslie]

No club currently in Division 5 or 6 is capable of reaching Division 3. Unless they are allowed to pay players ongoing.

All I’m saying it’s not as easy as matching up skill for skill. Anyone’s able to grow their club, it’s just bloody hard. We’ve been in higher grades and we want to get back there, but it will take a long time, and player retention is our biggest hurdle, as it is with all the lower division clubs aiming to grow.

 

[Heavyd]

In Div 3 Hawk Valley kept alive their semis hopes with a big away win against Iggies. Think they are capable of an upset over BOBs at home or at least a bonus point could be enough to see them in over Brothers and Iggies.

In 2nds look like Iggies will miss out on finals with Newport beating BOBs.

Newport colts all but claimed minor premiership with win over BOBs.

3rd grade semis teams looked lock in with BOBs the clear favourites.

 

[Pfitzy]

In Division 5, Menai and Merrylands are lock-ins for the top 2 spots IMHO.

Menai: 53 points
Wolves: 49 points
Covies: 37 points
Savers: 35 points
Convicts: 32 points

Convicts have 2 games in hand - one is against Dukes so they're really on 37 points IMHO, and in third place on number of wins by that mark, so really the table is this with Lane Cove yet to play Convicts as well:

Menai: 53 points
Wolves: 49 points
Convicts: 37 points
Covies: 37 points
Savers: 35 points

The game between Convicts at Covies (at Tantallon probably next weekend) might have dire consequences for Lane Cove who could miss out, as their last 2 games are at Savers and then home to Merrylands Wolves.

The Wolves will be looking for a strong run into the finals given the recent forfeits against them. They've got Convicts at home after the break, and that might even give the men from Woollahra a play at second spot!

Savers have it all to play for with two potential finalists ahead of them in the last two weeks. If Covies falter, Savers will take that spot and they've built some momentum the second half of the season.

 

[footy_footy]

Interesting few weeks ahead for Hunters Hill and Balmain in Div 1. Both clubs will be desperate to maintain their spot in the top division. The round 13 clash at Boronia Park will be massive. Based on recent form and the fact they have a decent colts team Hunters Hill to pip Balmain at the post. Balmain had a very tough day out v Mosman on Saturday.

Otherwise it's almost clear cut that Blue Mountains look set to join Div 1 and Beecroft will be relegated to Div 3 in exchange for an in form BOB's.

 

[Heavyd]

Interesting few weeks ahead for Hunters Hill and Balmain in Div 1. Both clubs will be desperate to maintain their spot in the top division. The round 13 clash at Boronia Park will be massive. Based on recent form and the fact they have a decent colts team Hunters Hill to pip Balmain at the post. Balmain had a very tough day out v Mosman on Saturday.

Otherwise it's almost clear cut that Blue Mountains look set to join Div 1 and Beecroft will be relegated to Div 3 in exchange for an in form BOB's.

Never understood the desire to stay in a higher Div if you’ve become the comps whipping boy. Looking at Hunters Hill they are coming last in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th grade whilst their colts provide a ray of sunshine in 4th. What fun is it to try and stay up for more week in week out floggings next year? I’ve always thought drop down, consolidate, rebuild and survive.
If Blue Mountains go up and lose all their Penrith players to a start up Riff subbies club they will struggle. Likewise BOBS riding high in their 50th year may find year end retirements make next years step up not as much fun as it sounded in the middle of round 1 where players were everywhere.

 

[footy_footy]

Never understood the desire to stay in a higher Div if you’ve become the comps whipping boy. Looking at Hunters Hill they are coming last in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th grade whilst their colts provide a ray of sunshine in 4th. What fun is it to try and stay up for more week in week out floggings next year? I’ve always thought drop down, consolidate, rebuild and survive.
If Blue Mountains go up and lose all their Penrith players to a start up Riff subbies club they will struggle. Likewise BOBS riding high in their 50th year may find year end retirements make next years step up not as much fun as it sounded in the middle of round 1 where players were everywhere.

Couldn't agree more. Everyone likes winning! I'm sure everyone at Hunters Hill enjoyed winning premierships and playing finals last year in Div 2 a lot more than their current situation in Div 1. St Pats were very keen to stay up in Div 1 despite their awful results last year. Frankly if St Pats were to still be in Div 1 it could have spelt a disastrous decline like Iggies, Brothers and Beecroft to name a few who suffered in the top division in the past 5 years or so. Full credit to Epping who have really made a fist of division 2 sitting 4th in the Club Championship. In my opinion, none of the present Div 2 teams are capable of matching it throughout the grades with the present big guns of Mosman, Petersham or Colleagues.

 

[Pfitzy]

Nor will they ever be in the current shamateur setup. Too well resourced, those guys. Last spot in the Div1 club championship will be a revolving door

 

[The Real Big Bopper]

Couldn't agree more. Everyone likes winning! I'm sure everyone at Hunters Hill enjoyed winning premierships and playing finals last year in Div 2 a lot more than their current situation in Div 1. St Pats were very keen to stay up in Div 1 despite their awful results last year. Frankly if St Pats were to still be in Div 1 it could have spelt a disastrous decline like Iggies, Brothers and Beecroft to name a few who suffered in the top division in the past 5 years or so. Full credit to Epping who have really made a fist of division 2 sitting 4th in the Club Championship. In my opinion, none of the present Div 2 teams are capable of matching it throughout the grades with the present big guns of Mosman, Petersham or Colleagues.

It's the depth of those big clubs that make them so strong in div1 more than anything else. Good fringe players with a poor rugby attitude start to drift away if not in the top comp, then lower grade teams for those clubs start to struggle. Looking at the team sheets for Pat's on Saturday, they had quite a handfull of guys playing 4s, 3s and 2s.

We've found it challenging in regards to depth this year. It's the extra grade in div2 that has pushed us. Last year we regularly ran Halligan's teams as our 4th grade but having to turn out 4 grades each week has been tough (as our 4th grade results suggest). We even ran a couple of Halligan's games as 5th grade earlier in the year on the back of last years success + recruitment but injuries, work, holidays and egos quickly knocked that on the head.

Pfitzy, you are not the only one struggling to fill teams each week. Some of us have have more players, but we've also got more teams to fill....

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[Pfitzy]

Yeah the challenges are there for everyone - particularly when you're wondering who you have to ask to back up because you don't want fines/lost points.

We've got a couple of our props heading overseas the last two weeks of the year so with injuries as well, we're looking very lean for front row in the last 2 rounds.

The difference for me is we've now tried sticking to our guns on rego, and then making rego ridiculously low. Neither has worked. Guys just want to go do other things, and don't seem to understand "commitment". I don't blame the people who have to work some Saturdays, but we're not going to be viable for 2019 the way we're going.

 

[Seagull Butler]

Never understood the desire to stay in a higher Div if you’ve become the comps whipping boy. Looking at Hunters Hill they are coming last in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th grade whilst their colts provide a ray of sunshine in 4th. What fun is it to try and stay up for more week in week out floggings next year? I’ve always thought drop down, consolidate, rebuild and survive.

Mate - been in this situation (and on the committee) for 3 different years like this (2012, 2013 and now 2018) and the major reason for the desire is what the flip side of that desire is - i.e. losing/throwing games to make sure you go down a comp. As a current player as well, if the club started to muck around with trying to lose, I'd leave. 2018 is also a very different season and feel around the club then 2013 also. Although winning premierships is nice I agree.

Personally (I can't speak for the rest of the committee or playing group here), worrying about the possibility of staying up or down now doesn't help the club long term at all. We strive to have as many teams win each week, and if the results do or don't go our way, we worry about next season at the end of this one.

 

[The Real Big Bopper]

Ok experts... The vet, the two heavies and footy_footy and pfitzy at least... let's get these finals predictions in

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[Pfitzy]

DIVISION 5 - not much has changed here:

Menai have a fairly easy run home against Dukes and Maccabi, so expect them to finish Minor Premiers.
Merrylands will also finish strong but simply haven't grabbed the bonus points away that Menai have. 2nd
Convicts can catch up 10 points against Covies and Dukes to put themselves back in third this weekend

Covies have a tough run in, with their catch-up game against Convicts to play, then Savers and Wolves.
Savers probably the smokey, as their back half of the season is very strong.

It'll be a close run thing but reckon Savers - with their current roster, will win next week at Keirle Park to relegate Covies to 5th.

FINALS WEEK 1:
Menai v Merrylands - the Wolves will have too much here I reckon, but need to keep their discipline in front of a full bevy of officials. If they shut down Menai's offload game they'll have too much at the set piece.
Convicts v Savers - now they're over the Bingham Cup I'll back Convicts to knock Savers out of contention here

FINALS WEEK 2:
Menai v Convicts - Menai to get angry and prove the old saying: "A good big man will always beat a good little man".

GRAND FINAL:
Merrylands to hold on and deny Menai a title for the first time. Wolves to also take the Club Championship.

 

[Bernie]

DIVISION 5 - not much has changed here:

Menai have a fairly easy run home against Dukes and Maccabi, so expect them to finish Minor Premiers.
Merrylands will also finish strong but simply haven't grabbed the bonus points away that Menai have. 2nd
Convicts can catch up 10 points against Covies and Dukes to put themselves back in third this weekend

Covies have a tough run in, with their catch-up game against Convicts to play, then Savers and Wolves.
Savers probably the smokey, as their back half of the season is very strong.

It'll be a close run thing but reckon Savers - with their current roster, will win next week at Keirle Park to relegate Covies to 5th.

FINALS WEEK 1:
Menai v Merrylands - the Wolves will have too much here I reckon, but need to keep their discipline in front of a full bevy of officials. If they shut down Menai's offload game they'll have too much at the set piece.
Convicts v Savers - now they're over the Bingham Cup I'll back Convicts to knock Savers out of contention here

FINALS WEEK 2:
Menai v Convicts - Menai to get angry and prove the old saying: "A good big man will always beat a good little man".

GRAND FINAL:
Merrylands to hold on and deny Menai a title for the first time. Wolves to also take the Club Championship.

Lane Cove defeated Convicts 44-19 today to put us right back in amongst to Top 4.
The morbidly obese lady hasn't started warming up her voice yet for Convicts but i guess it will come down to two things-will Dukes want to play a mid-week make up game against Convicts (unlikely) and the round 14 clash between Savers and Convicts.

 

[Pfitzy]

Yep Covies aimed up today and took the chocolates. Makes the finals run very interesting if Convicts can't get consistency in their lineup.

 

[footy_footy]

Div 2 Finals predictions

1st Grade
1. Forest
2. St Pats
3. Blue Mountains
4. Epping

Tipping Epping to sneak into the 4 with 2 wins to finish the regular season. Hills v Epping in round 14 will be massive and backing the Rams to end what started out as a very good year for Hills. In round 13 I'm backing St Pats at home over Blue Mountains to lock up 2nd position. GF Prediction Forest v Blue Mountains.

2nd Grade
1. Blue Mountains
2. Lindfield
3. Epping
4. Forest

The top 4 to remain unchanged for the last two rounds and can't see anything other than a Blue Mountains v Lindfield GF.

Colts
1. Forest
2. St Pats
3. Lindfield
4.Epping

Blue Mountains I think will lose 4th spot with two last round losses to St Pats and Lindfield. Epping to finish 4th but will only be a short stay in the finals. Forest have only lost the one game and will go in as favourites. Forest v St Pats GF.

3rd Grade
1. Blue Mountains
2. Lindfield
3. Hills
4. Beecroft

Top 3 is locked up and in Blue Mountains don't win the Blunt Cup I will eat my hat. Furious battle for 4th between Beecroft and Epping, but backing Beecroft to secure one finals berth with a 2 point advantage heading into round 13. Blue Mountains v Lindfield GF.

4th Grade
1. St Pats
2. Hills
3. Blue Mountains
4. Forest.

Forest to hold off Lindfield for 4th. St Pats have fielded a premiership 4th grade teams in Div 1 over the past few years and will play the thrice reigning premiers Hills in the GF.

 

[Heavyd]

DIV 3 Half Season Wrap

BOBS:
Pros – Dream start to 50th year celebrations sitting number 1 across 1s, 3s and colts and 2nd in 2s. Appearing to have player depth as far as the eye can see and should be everywhere come Grand Final day. You would think a real chance for the quadrella? Four of six at home so will be all but unbeatable.

Cons – Notoriously poor late season finishes whom always lose momentum after the June long weekend. This year will player depth help them lift, surely!
Verdict – this year they are the real deal and anything other than a minimum two Premierships would be a failure + all but guaranteed a DIV 2 spot should they want to go up.

HAC:
Pros – Strong 1s and 2s who have topped up with a handful of handy Emus.
Cons - No club depth. Colts and 3s are rubbish and if encounter any injuries could become vulnerable.
Verdict - Should make an impact finals time in the higher grades.

REDFIELD:
Pros – Plenty of numbersand a young skilful player base.
Cons – tough trip home with away games against HAC, BOBS and Iggies.
Verdict – no reason why they cannot have all teams in the semis from here but cannot see a Premiership for them this year.

IGGIES:
Pros – a club with a history of getting it together come finals time.
Cons – appear to be in rebuilding phaseafter some retirements.
Verdict – will be around in lower grades and colts come finals time.

Newport:
Pros – Strong colts squad laying a solid future foundation. Will come home strong with favourable back half draw.
Cons – Similar to Iggies, rebuilding 1st grade with no real size across the grades.
Verdict – Expect their lower grades and colts to be there or thereabouts come GF time.

Brothers
Pros – Have managed to revive their 1st grade side by attracting faraway talent mid-season yet again.
Cons – Have zero depth and it appears the colts who shouldered the early season burden of backing up game after game have hit a form or injury slump.
Verdict – think their 1s might sneak into semis but will be 1st out.

Hawkesbury Valley
Pros – have plenty of big boppas and win over ROBs makes them chance at 1st semis.
Cons – have 4 of 6 away.
Verdict - 4th grade might make an appearance come semi’s time and 1s might surprise the world.

St Ives
Pros – Proud club doing all they can to see the season through
Cons – Too many to list but hope they can overcome them
Verdict – Will be a sign of their resilience and courage if they can see the season out without forfeiting a grade.


Finals Predictions
1st grade BOBs beating HAC
2nd grade HAC beating Newport
Colts BOBS beating Newport
3rd Grade BOBs beating Newport

Will stand by my tips from mid season except I now have Newport over BOBs in Colts.

 

[SubbiesVeteran]

I’ll do Div 2 Now and Div 1 early in the week

Div 2

1st Grade
1st- Blue Mountains
2nd- Forest
3rd- St Pats
4th- Hills

It’s going to come down to the last round especially for 4thplace. Epping and Hills will be a cracker and will more than likely decide 4th Position. I’m going to go Hills will knock off both Forest and Epping to lock themselves in and possibly finish 3rd depending on Pats results. Mountains are the bench mark team and could be facing either 3 of the sides who manage to make the 4 in the grand final

2nd Grade
1st- Blue Mountains
2nd- Lindfield
3rd- Epping
4th- Beecroft

Some may find this a touch strange especially with position 4. I’ve got one statement “the stack is on” the old mentality of well we won’t be here next year let’s try and take a premiership with us. Plenty of different players from the first half of the year and will sneak in thanks to a few other results as well. Again Mountains are the team to beat and I think they will be playing Epping in the Grand Final

Colts
1st- Forest
2nd- Lindfield
3rd- St Pats
4th- Epping

Geez this is a tight old comp with 2nd and 6th seperate by 8 points. Most teams in the top 6 play each other coming into the last 2 rounds and being so close I think Epping will be the ones that claim 4thSpot purely based off their run home. Although we have seen absolutely anything can happen in this Comp. feel it will be a Forest v Lindfield Grand Final though. Will enjoy watching how this one pans out

3rd Grade
1st- Blue Mountains
2nd- Lindfield
3rd- Hills
4th- Epping

Another one where 4thplace could go either way with the run home. Apart from Mountains dominance it’s been a fairly open comp between the 2nd-5th with all teams managing to knock each other off on any day and at any ground. Another one to keep an eye on think we will be seeing Mountains v Hills or Lindfield in the final

4th Grade
1st- Hills
2nd- Blue Mountains
3rd- St Pats
4th- UNSW

Could absolutely anyway possible here 2nd v 6th Seperatef by 11 points and like 3s so unpredictable think UNSW will stack a few guys in to help get them there and Pats will be the same. Not sure if I could even make a prediction on who the grand final will be. Looking at Pats and UNSW they will be in the mix as the other 2 clubs look like they will have multiple teams in finals

 

[Heavyd]

DIV 3

1st Grade
BOBs - HAC - REDFIELD - HAWKESBURY VALLEY

HV to edge out Brothers for the Four with an upset victory over BOBs at home this weekend then dispatch Saints in the last round. Brothers would need to beat HAC at home this weekend to keep them at bay I cannot see that happening.
GF BOBs vs HAC
Premiers BOBS

2nd Grade
HAC - BOBs - NEWPORT - REDFIELD

Iggies are in a 3 way battle with Newport and Redfield to make the minor semi but with two away games against Breakers and HAC cannot see them recording back to back wins.
GF HAC vs Newport
Premiers HAC

Colts
NEWPORT - BOBS - IGGIEs- REDFIELD
Top four already settled
GF Newport - BOBS
Premiers Newport

3rds
BOBS - IGGIES - BREAKERS - REDFIELD
Top four all but determined and my previous GF candidates Newport appear to be struggling in 3s. Assuming with IGGIES out of contention in 1s and 2s IGGIEs they will field a new look 3rd grade come finals time. IGGIEs vs Newport this weekend will decide BOBs potential GF appointnent.
GF BOBS - IGGIEs
Premiers BOBS

BOBs to claim 2 (maybe 3 Premierships with colts), HAC 1 and Newport should hold on for colts.

 

[Ozzie Bob]

What happened with this colts game? Did it go ahead? I notice the table hasn't been updated.

BOBS/ HAC colts was called off because of uni exams. Game is going to be played on the wet weather weekend