Sydney Subbies 2017

[3rd man in]

Thanks C Dark, sounds like Wilson has a case to answer. It appears both Epping and Redfield are in a lot of turmoil. I also heard that one of the Redfield fellas, David Casey, got into a blue with one of their colts players at a popular night spot in Beecroft on Saturday night. Don't expect Casey to play this weekend, I think the club has banned him for a week.

Does this mean M.Packman will be back this week for robs in the centres??

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[BeachBreaker]

Just had something interesting come into my inbox. Did Eppings "Palmer" brothers change things up last week and submit an incorrect team list? Report has it that their 1st grade 10 Was seen playing in 3s under his brothers name and was seen running into the field when St Ives had 1st graders come onto the field..this would explain the little impact he had in 1st grade.

 

[Heavyd]

Just had something interesting come into my inbox. Did Eppings "Palmer" brothers change things up last week and submit an incorrect team list? Report has it that their 1st grade 10 Was seen playing in 3s under his brothers name and was seen running into the field when St Ives had 1st graders come onto the field..this would explain the little impact he had in 1st grade.

I'm losing track of all this drama. So he played 3rds and 1sts? Or the 3rd grade Brother played 1sts?

 

[FenceLover]

What's your obsession with Tantallon fence mate?

You started it, I'm just finally glad there is an environment where I can be myself and find friends. You have to admit though it's a gorgeous fence

 

[BeachBreaker]

I'm losing track of all this drama. So he played 3rds and 1sts? Or the 3rd grade Brother played 1sts?

Need someone from St Ives to confirm but my understanding is they think he may have played both 3s and 1s. There are 3 brothers playing so I guess it's possible couldn't imagine them looking too different. Seems silly to risk points when in front in both comps.

 

[Prodigy]

It is funny that brothers would look alike. Rick Palmer played 3rd grade last week, while Scott and Todd played 1st grade. No rubbish going on.

Need someone from St Ives to confirm but my understanding is they think he may have played both 3s and 1s. There are 3 brothers playing so I guess it's possible couldn't imagine them looking too different. Seems silly to risk points when in front in both comps.

 

[Josefa To-mummy]

There Is No Chance Mac Uni Are Paying Players. It's An Amateur Conpetition.

My source begs to differ. Subbies teams shouldn't be paying players but it's not unheard of. Will be interesting to see if we spot any new faces in their 1st grade line up in coming weeks.

 

[Nath]

Not here to peel back your king prawn Josefa but.

Maybe the moneys coming in from birchgrove bes' untapped Japanese investors?
If this is true and they can market correctly i suspect a mac uni five dragons 1st 15 may be on the boil! Mr McGoo might be wise to sit on his hands before signing anything solid with lane cove.

Here he is after sealing the deal.

What a job the old fart has done.

 

[Josefa To-mummy]

Does this mean M.Packman will be back this week for robs in the centres??

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Haha good question about Packman - Redfield's props are about the size of their centres, so wouldn't rule it out. But I haven't seen Packman on any team sheets this year. But if you go back a year, he and Sean Cunningham were 3rd grade props together. Cunningham is now a 1st grade regular but I hear he is being hunted by Epping. Epping is closer to home for him and they are going to play him in their back row where he prefers to play.

 

[Pfitzy]

Div 4 Blacktown, Canterbury, Quinns, Irish, Briars, Mac Uni, Lane Cove, Rouse Hill

It would be Tudehoping against Tudehope that we stay in 4th Division. And whoever is Tudehoping we stay up there certainly isn't me.

See what I did there?

To put a fine point on it: Approximately negative 4000% chance of that happening after this season. We'll be lucky to make 6th Division, and even then I fear our starting player average age will be somewhere north of 30.

This will kick off a cascade of things for the club:

1) We will be pushing shit uphill to get a ground from Hills Council
2) We will have less members to support our sponsor
3) We will have less funds to donate to CHW each year
4) There will be less game time for everyone so retention will get harder

My personal expectation is to be re-elected President at the AGM this year, with a high chance of overseeing the cessation of senior rugby - including our charity activities - by the time the 2018 AGM rolls around.

 

[Prodigy]

Given the vast disparity in results this year I think the divisions for next year will look a lot different. Thoughts?

Div 1 Drummonyne, Mosman, Petersham, Waverley, Colleagues, Knox, St Pats and Hunters Hill (promoted)
Div 2 Hawkesbury Ag (just), Blue Mountains, UNSW, Forest, Hills, Lindfield, Epping (promoted) Beecroft
Div 3 Barker, Iggies, Redfield, St Ives, Newport, Brothers, Hawkesbury Valley, Oatley (promoted)
Div 4 Blacktown, Canterbury, Quinns, Irish, Briars, Mac Uni, Lane Cove, Rouse Hill
Div 5 unchanged
Div 6 unchanged

Any new clubs in sight?

Tommy,

I'm not sure if Subbies will keep their heads in the sand and stick with the same divisional structures for next year. Surely at some point, they will get input from the clubs as to what they feel is achievable.

Really, given only four clubs nominated for 5th Grade in Div 1 (and there has already been a number of forfeits), what is the real difference between Division 1 and Division 2.

I don't know the answers but do you move into regions? Set up four/five divisions and play inter-regional games. For finals, the top eight FIRST GRADE teams compete for the Kentwell Cup, the next eight compete for the Barraclough and so on.

 

[Pfitzy]

I don't know the answers but do you move into regions? Set up four/five divisions and play inter-regional games. For finals, the top eight FIRST GRADE teams compete for the Kentwell Cup, the next eight compete for the Barraclough and so on.

A survey came around to the club email address which I filled out - comp structure was a thing I said needed to be looked at on regional lines.

I've got a crapload of guys who work Saturdays. Some of them might be on the opposite side of Sydney to where they need to be, whether we're home or away. But at least if its consistently in the same area, they can plan for that.

The real issue is numbers - at the moment I can't even get 20 blokes on the park. Who the hell am I going to play against? Who is going to schedule my team playing a Third Grade side somewhere while another club fields 1st and 2nd Grade?

Nightmare.

 

[Skinny Minny]

What's your obsession with Tantallon fence mate?

Jealously mainly.... oh and the fact that I'm a keyboard warrior/bully

I'm also desperately seeking admiration from other internet users that I don't know, by continually harping on about a slightly amusing remark I made in a previous post, poking fun at you referencing the fence at Tantallon being one of the reasons your club is so "successful".



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[adamj]

My mate works on the sports executive at Mac Uni. They just gave big grants to the netball, touch footy, rugby club and university games association. The rugby club is now awash with cash and given they have always struggled for size I'm not surprised they are shopping around for a couple of boppers.

There is no Netball or Touch Footy clubs at the Uni. Just a side that is selected for the Eastern and Australian University Games competitions.

All the money that comes to the Rugby Club is funneled straight into the grounds keeping for fence/hedge maintenance and consultants fees for the next colour/logo change due in 2019.

There is some other news involving Mac Uni and Rugby about to be released, but it has nothing to do with the Subbies Club or Shaun Kenny-Dowall ..... whoops.

 

[Ozzie Bob]

Nick are you able to give us a bit of background on the club. You mentioned that you started in 2007, and looking at your club website you had a lot of success in the early years. Was this down to being able to attract players with a few $$$$? I know the end to last season wasn't great and its a shame that a few bad eggs ruin it for everybody. I assumed that there would be a massive demand to play rugby in your area of Sydney. With all the housing developments and the new rail line going in I would have thought that you would have had players coming out your ears and the council on your side. I know what they say about assuming................

It would be Tudehoping against Tudehope that we stay in 4th Division. And whoever is Tudehoping we stay up there certainly isn't me.

See what I did there?

To put a fine point on it: Approximately negative 4000% chance of that happening after this season. We'll be lucky to make 6th Division, and even then I fear our starting player average age will be somewhere north of 30.

This will kick off a cascade of things for the club:

1) We will be pushing shit uphill to get a ground from Hills Council
2) We will have less members to support our sponsor
3) We will have less funds to donate to CHW each year
4) There will be less game time for everyone so retention will get harder

My personal expectation is to be re-elected President at the AGM this year, with a high chance of overseeing the cessation of senior rugby - including our charity activities - by the time the 2018 AGM rolls around.

 

[Tommy Tudehope]

Tommy,

I'm not sure if Subbies will keep their heads in the sand and stick with the same divisional structures for next year. Surely at some point, they will get input from the clubs as to what they feel is achievable.

Really, given only four clubs nominated for 5th Grade in Div 1 (and there has already been a number of forfeits), what is the real difference between Division 1 and Division 2.

I don't know the answers but do you move into regions? Set up four/five divisions and play inter-regional games. For finals, the top eight FIRST GRADE teams compete for the Kentwell Cup, the next eight compete for the Barraclough and so on.

I think the regional setup needs serious consideration. The obvious reality is that the competition is and has been in serious decline for some time. Fewer clubs, fewer teams, and fewer players. Any new arrangement needs to arrest this trend and make it attractive as possible for new players.
When was the last Subbies wide survey done? Due for another one I think.

 

[Pfitzy]

I think the regional setup needs serious consideration. The obvious reality is that the competition is and has been in serious decline for some time. Fewer clubs, fewer teams, and fewer players. Any new arrangement needs to arrest this trend and make it attractive as possible for new players.
When was the last Subbies wide survey done? Due for another one I think.

It might be something like this - note, however, that as a surverymonkey it is only for the recipient to fill out i.e. can't forward it.

 

[Pfitzy]

Nick are you able to give us a bit of background on the club. You mentioned that you started in 2007, and looking at your club website you had a lot of success in the early years. Was this down to being able to attract players with a few $$$$?

Without airing all the dirty laundry: yes, money.

The early years was payments to a few players - no harm there as the comp wasn't amateur - and a bit of dominance followed. Jeffrey Cups in 2007 and 2009 (lost 2008 final in the mud against Quins, runners-up in 2010 against St George).

Noice Cup in 2010 (runners up in 2007 and 2008, finalists in 2009). The Second Grade team that year featured some ex-Grade players who just wanted a run with the boys. So they didn't train, just turned up from Mounty County whenever they felt like it to have fun. We feted those blokes, and they wholesale fucked off after they'd drunk the beer and eaten the food.

In 2011 it was a major slump as we tried to get up to 4th Division, and of the 40 blokes who played on GF day 2010, 25 left the club in some form. The loyalty was either to the cash or their bros - not the club.

The only notable event since then was 2014 appearance in the finals in Third Grade - mainly because nobody wanted to play higher. Eliminated by Quins in the first week.

The recent fightbacks in 2015 and 2016, including some likely finals positions last year, were probably due to money. We can't prove anything, but think the First Grade Coach was paying players under the table.

Certainly, most of the onfield talent (who were directly involved in the brawl) got jobs via the coach directly, and some even turned up to the games in taxis. Draw from that what you will.

I assumed that there would be a massive demand to play rugby in your area of Sydney. With all the housing developments and the new rail line going in I would have thought that you would have had players coming out your ears

Yep. That's what I used to think, too. I think that theory is brought down by several things:

1) The lack of cultural development in the club because of the focus on success. So players out who could develop, or contribute to the social fabric of the club, felt alienated, and left.

2) That is probably more important that the fact the NSWRU can't provide any sort of profile out here - the only players that would probably be recognised at training are your Israel Folaus and Will Skeltons. And when I asked for them via the portal, I didn't even get a reply.

3) Shitloads of league in the area for good players.

4) The schools who produce rugby players generally have an alignment already. I've contacted a few places like William Clarke College and Rouse Hill Anglican (who have no rugby program but would like one), and have received zero in return. Not even a "thanks but no thanks"

5) Distinct lack of available bodies to volunteer - particularly as we have no history, we have no old boys. Generally speaking, older people can't afford to live in the area or are simply better off moving away. The few guys I'd like to have volunteering want to play, and NEED to play due to our shortfall in numbers.

6) Saturday work hours kill off a lot of interest, particularly away games.

7) General demographic is young families so guys who might otherwise be interested, can't afford to get injured.

8) For the South African audience I've tried to target, I reckon I'm between generations - either guys in their 40s who are too old, or guys in their teens who are too young, for now. Maybe that will change.

and the council on your side. I know what they say about assuming......

Hills Council give precisely zero fucks about anyone - unless they've got a shit-ton of cash. When I tell some other teams we have to buy our own goal posts, or mark our own ground (or pay Council for the privilege) they're gobsmacked. Others are sympathetic, having been there.

I may have mentioned we share our ground with soccer - Kellyville United FC started in October 2015 and have ~800 paid up members at this point. Around ?10? senior teams and then juniors. They pay something like $350 or $390 each per annum.

How do I go to Council and demand something better for rugby when I've got 60 guys signed up (around 30 guys paid up) and soccer are collecting a quarter million in registration fees alone?

Next year I'll be saving some money only having one training night (not a fucking Wednesday either, because fucking state of origin is adored by these people for reasons I don't understand), and probably only one game per week.

So Council will be giving even more time to soccer to fuck up my pitch.

 

[Heavyd]

Central Comp
Drummoyne
Hunters
Petersham
Colleagues
Mosman
Waverley
Balmain
St Pats
UNSW (

Western Conference
Blue Mountains
HAC
Hills
Epping
Redfield
Beecroft
Hawkesbury Valley
Blacktown

The top 2 of each conference play off in a play-off series.

District comps are the only way for the future of subbies.

1. It overcomes the challenges of travelling around Sydney.
2. Packaged and marketed right could also attract lower Shute Shield players
3. A Super Finals series between top two clubs across conferences would draw crowd interest from all clubs looking to support their Div conference and could be a good money spinner for Subbies.

Sure there would be a year or 2 with stronger clubs dominating but I think it would level off after that.

 

[Heavyd]

District comps are the only way for the future of subbies.

1. It overcomes the challenges of travelling around Sydney.
2. Packaged and marketed right could also attract lower Shute Shield players
3. A Super Finals series between top two clubs across conferences would draw crowd interest from all clubs looking to support their Div conference and could be a good money spinner for Subbies.

Sure there would be a year or 2 with stronger clubs dominating but I think it would level off after that.

this was the 3rd conference

BOBS
Knox
St Ives
Forest
Newport
Brothers
Iggies
Lindfield