Sydney Subbies 2016

[Hugh Jarse]

2015 is almost done and dusted. Time to move on to the next big thing which is Season 2016.

There will be a whole crop of Schoolkids hitting the market fairly soon, and many of them will have no intention of becoming a future Shute Shield Super Star. They will just want to play footy for fun with their mates.

What surprises will there be in store from ARU, NSW RU and NSW SRU?

Who's moving up and down divisions? Who's changing clubs?

What is doing in the Coaching ranks?

What's happening with the Subbies Rep team?

Player payments? Rego and Insurance Levies?

Will RugbyLink be around to "help" administer the clubs?

Let the wang begin.

 

[Pfitzy]

Ran a 6 team 4th Division a few years back after it was absent for a while.

It fucking sucked.

KOBs will come down most likely so hopefully someone can keep around and make it 8 clubs

 

[Peej]

Old Ignatians will be venturing down the divisions I'm lead to believe. Struggled for numbers most of season and didn't field 3rd, 4th grades most of 2nd half of season. Because they couldn't field required teams for Div 1 I doubt they will be allowed to enter Div 2 since they have the same requirements. Could be 3 or 4???

 

[Pfitzy]

After the screaming debacle that was Beecroft's demotion three divisions, if Iggies come down that far as well there will be hell to pay from the clubs left there.

 

[Heavyd]

2nd Div Wrap

Barker - after a traditionally strong start numbers fell away badly mid season. A Stirling effort from their 1st grade side can't hide the fact they disappointed with only 1 team in finals.

Blue Mountains - struggled to put a 4ths out all season and despite a late stack in 2nds only made the 1 final. Where unlucky to loose against a higher grade UNSW but hey, that's karma.

Forest - a succession back end with a gutsy 1st grade performance and higher grade premierships. All is not as it seems with a poor colts program and struggled for numbers in lower grades. They didn't really have a 3rd grade side throughout the season.

Hills - my tip for club of the year, strongest overall player numbers iand had 3 sides into the semis.

Hunters - early Barraclough favourites faded and will be challenged next year with the departure of their big names. As with all clubs struggled to field lower grades and no real talent coming through colts to change much next year.

Newport - 4 teams into the semis doesn't hide the fact they too struggled for numbers in lower grades and like Forest didn't really have a 3rd grade side. Colts look strong which is a good sign for them if they can retain.

Lindfield - surprise packets of 2015 with good player depth and club spirit. Their ability to retain colt and a weaker 1st grade side will decide how tough 2016 is up with the big boys.

UNSW - last years club of the year struggled all year for numbers. Thankfully their club men stood up to play multiple games week in/ week out. Strong colts will hopefully fill gaps next year.

Next year is make or break for many of these clubs if Subbies stubbornly persist with 4 grades as I'd honestly argue that apart from Hills, every team struggled to put a 4ths out week after week.

 

[Tommy Tudehope]

2nd Div Wrap

Barker - after a traditionally strong start numbers fell away badly mid season. A Stirling effort from their 1st grade side can't hide the fact they disappointed with only 1 team in finals.

Blue Mountains - struggled to put a 4ths out all season and despite a late stack in 2nds only made the 1 final. Where unlucky to loose against a higher grade UNSW but hey, that's karma.

Forest - a succession back end with a gutsy 1st grade performance and higher grade premierships. All is not as it seems with a poor colts program and struggled for numbers in lower grades. They didn't really have a 3rd grade side throughout the season.

Hills - my tip for club of the year, strongest overall player numbers iand had 3 sides into the semis.

Hunters - early Barraclough favourites faded and will be challenged next year with the departure of their big names. As with all clubs struggled to field lower grades and no real talent coming through colts to change much next year.

Newport - 4 teams into the semis doesn't hide the fact they too struggled for numbers in lower grades and like Forest didn't really have a 3rd grade side. Colts look strong which is a good sign for them if they can retain.

Lindfield - surprise packets of 2015 with good player depth and club spirit. Their ability to retain colt and a weaker 1st grade side will decide how tough 2016 is up with the big boys.

UNSW - last years club of the year struggled all year for numbers. Thankfully their club men stood up to play multiple games week in/ week out. Strong colts will hopefully fill gaps next year.

Next year is make or break for many of these clubs if Subbies stubbornly persist with 4 grades as I'd honestly argue that apart from Hills, every team struggled to put a 4ths out week after week.

Who is likely to be relegated?

 

[Peej]

After the screaming debacle that was Beecroft's demotion three divisions, if Iggies come down that far as well there will be hell to pay from the clubs left there.

Completely understandable too with what I have heard. I'm sure Iggies would stay in Div 1 if they had the numbers but the fact is they don't at the moment (which a lot of clubs don't) and because they don't they cant be in Div 1 or 2.
From there it is up to subbies to decide where they land depending on other teams moving around and comp numbers. It's a friendly club they wouldn't want to put any other club out or offside they just want to play some competitive footy in a social club.

 

[Heavyd]

Who is likely to be relegated?

No one is due for relegation from Div 2 this year. That was assuming its winner would go to Div 1 to make it a 10 team comp. Now with Brothers & Igges have collapsed maybe Brothers goes to 2nd Div and Igges 3rd Div with no one coming up from 3rd Div. If they stick with all the grades everyone will fold!

 

[Pfitzy]

That presents a decent solution - if we keep having uneven numbers on Divisions it will continue to suck.

First Div: as is, minus Iggies - 8 clubs
Colleagues, Mosman, Balmain, Drummoyne, St Pats, Knox, Petersham, Brothers (maybe permitted to drop 5th Grade)

Second Div: tough call as its pretty even, so leave it alone - 8 clubs
Lindfield, Forest, Hills, Newport, Barker OB, Hunters Hill, Blue Mountains, UNSW

Third Div: Add Iggies and Beecroft, drop KOB and Valley - 8 clubs
Redfield OB, Waverley, UWSH, Epping, Oatley, St Ives, Iggies, Beecroft

Fourth Div: Drop Merrylands, Convicts, Mac Uni, then add KOB and Valley - 8 clubs
Canterbury, Harlequins, Irish, Briars, Blacktown, Rouse Hill, KOB, Valley

Fifth Div: Rebuild with these 8 clubs:
Merrylands, Convicts, Mac Uni, Roseville, Maccabi, ICMS, Macarthur Crusaders, Burraneer/Menai

Then the rest can have a 6th Div comp along much the same lines as before.

 

[SteveMerrick]

What happens to clubs who are able to field the current required grades with genuine 5 and 6th grade sides (quality wise and also numbers)?

 

[Pfitzy]

They can play a Halligans game that week I guess.

I'm sure Subbies will work something out, but they just need to keep in mind that punishing clubs is why some have gone to other competitions, despite the other logistical challenges that can present (Hornsby, Campbelltown).

There aren't many easy answers, but asking clubs to front up for a whole Saturday, or travel across Greater Sydney, is going to have limited success ongoing, particularly as demographics shift.

 

[Tommy Tudehope]

That presents a decent solution - if we keep having uneven numbers on Divisions it will continue to suck.

First Div: as is, minus Iggies - 8 clubs
Colleagues, Mosman, Balmain, Drummoyne, St Pats, Knox, Petersham, Brothers (maybe permitted to drop 5th Grade)

Second Div: tough call as its pretty even, so leave it alone - 8 clubs
Lindfield, Forest, Hills, Newport, Barker OB, Hunters Hill, Blue Mountains, UNSW

Third Div: Add Iggies and Beecroft, drop KOB and Valley - 8 clubs
Redfield OB, Waverley, UWSH, Epping, Oatley, St Ives, Iggies, Beecroft

Fourth Div: Drop Merrylands, Convicts, Mac Uni, then add KOB and Valley - 8 clubs
Canterbury, Harlequins, Irish, Briars, Blacktown, Rouse Hill, KOB, Valley

Fifth Div: Rebuild with these 8 clubs:
Merrylands, Convicts, Mac Uni, Roseville, Maccabi, ICMS, Macarthur Crusaders, Burraneer/Menai

Then the rest can have a 6th Div comp along much the same lines as before.

Waverley desperate to go up. Don't see why they shouldn't. Plenty of numbers and excellent facilities.

I'd like to see 6 division scrapped altogether. If you're a new entry level club you play Halligans which should be extended to Friday nights. All other Div 6 clubs should field two teams and go in Div 5. If we want to grow the game it has to be from the bottom. Fiddling around with how many teams are fielded in top divisions is largely irrelevant in my opinion.

 

[Pfitzy]

If Waverley are frothing in the nether regions, then they and Brothers can swap. Its all blue and gold to me

Fiddling to get the right balance isn't wasted effort, mind. I think an 8-team comp with 2 full home and away rounds is just about right. Allows plenty of time for wet weather weekends, and also makes the wives and partners more appreciative of the season length.

 

[Heavyd]

Fiddling around with how many teams are fielded in top divisions is largely irrelevant in my opinion.[/quote]


I'd beg to differ here as I'd hardly call ensuring the ongoing sustainablility of suburban rugby clubs irrelevant. Continuing the current grade numbers when every stat tells you there are literally thousands fewer players just seems like complete madness to me.

 

[Tommy Tudehope]

Fiddling around with how many teams are fielded in top divisions is largely irrelevant in my opinion.

I'd beg to differ here as I'd hardly call ensuring the ongoing sustainablility of suburban rugby clubs irrelevant. Continuing the current grade numbers when every stat tells you there are literally thousands fewer players just seems like complete madness to me.[/quote]


Let me put it another way - the current scenario of 5 grades in the top division is not viable and is a given. However, the sustainability of Subbies and game at large is not going to hinge on how many teams Colleagues or Mosman can field but rather how many clubs can genuinely expand their player base over time and grow their respective clubs.

 

[Heavyd]

Let me put it another way - the current scenario of 5 grades in the top division is not viable and is a given. However, the sustainability of Subbies and game at large is not going to hinge on how many teams Colleagues or Mosman can field but rather how many clubs can genuinely expand their player base over time and grow their respective clubs.

Unfortunately Tommy I don't share your faith in subbies administration that the number of grades required to be filled will fall to sustainable levels. Until that occurs clubs will continue to burn forcing them to play 1.5/2 games a week to meet "requirements"

 

[Tommy Tudehope]

Unfortunately Tommy I don't share your faith in subbies administration that the number of grades required to be filled will fall to sustainable levels. Until that occurs clubs will continue to burn forcing them to play 1.5/2 games a week to meet "requirements"

I agree with you there. But my broader point is that if we want to be sustainable long term and grow the game then we should be largely focussed on building from the bottom - how do we make 1 team clubs 2 team clubs, how do we encourage new clubs in new areas and how do we prevent clubs from folding. I feel for Subbies admin. They're on a shoestring and are focussed on competition management rather than helping clubs. I just wish it was the other way around.

 

[Heavyd]

Good to see Balmain and Knox break up the Colleagues/Mosman Grand Final love in.

 

[barbarian]

Looking through the team sheets and its hard to see how Drummoyne are getting away with some of their 3rd grade backs. Sinisa, Afeaki and Havabond are just a tad above 3s I would have thought.......

 

[Tommy Tudehope]

Looking through the team sheets and its hard to see how Drummoyne are getting away with some of their 3rd grade backs. Sinisa, Afeaki and Havabond are just a tad above 3s I would have thought...

I heard someone say the same thing about some Cavill bloke a few weeks ago.