Sydney Subbies 2014

[Tommy Tudehope]

Yes it is but everyone must be prepared for the pain or support must be given to lower division clubs to attract players. Otherwise When Dundas get smahed by a thousand in rouund 1 by Campbelltown you might find few guys turning up for round 2.

There will be some serious trauma to make it happen. But it should happen.

As long as the Western Sydney Clubs are disadvantaged through travel - not to mention lack of teams sticking around to bolster the bar/bbq revenue - then the game will continually limp along norrowly avoiding death.

The other thing is it must be driven by the Clubs. Becasue even well meaning administrators, far removed from the reality of running Clubs out west, might struggle to understand that it can still take up to an hour to get from Campbelltown Showground to Lapstone Oval

Certainly some merit to this argument. A tiered approach would be hard to facilitate but may be the way to go. Make the divisions slightly bigger but with a different grading structure to avoid the inevitable rout that you mention above. Will be interesting to see the feedback from Div 6 clubs who are currently operating in a geographic competition.

 

[Whale berry]

I think you need a split comp.
Div 1 (sydney wide, semi serious, 4/5 grade plus colts) promo/relegation to and from Div 2 (sydney wide, a little bit less serious 3 / 4 grade plus colts).
Acknowledging the "cycle" other clubs can apply for Div 2, and/or existing Div 2 clubs can relinquish their place.

Then put in place a series of regional comps with say 3 grades per region.
Don't get hung up on each club having 3 grades. Adopt the Sydney AFL approach and mix and match.
Say you have a gun 1 team club at "Eastern Creek" they play in the 1st grade western comp, if they grow and add teams then they can be added in at the appropriate level.
Like wise you may have a existing two team club who just doesn't have the skill level to play in the top grade, place their "1st team" in 2nd grade and their "2nd"team in the 3rd grade.

The positives with the regional comps organised that way is that you typically get a more even comp with less floggings, meaning guys will hang around longer.
The negative though is that on away games you could have your teams playing different clubs at different grounds, makes it a bit harder with reserves and volunteers.

You could then have s series of "Haligan" cup comps to cater for the over flows from Div 1 and Div 2 and the times when the regional clubs have extra players looking for a game.

 

[Camo]

The Crisp family and Balmain Rugby will distribute funds raised on the day in Toby's honour towards;
* CPR training for local sporting clubs
* Donation to the ICU unit at Royal Prince Alfred.
* Contribution towards Defibrillators for Subbies Rugby Clubs
* Assisting with costs for Toby's wake

 

[Pfitzy]

Then put in place a series of regional comps with say 3 grades per region.
Don't get hung up on each club having 3 grades. Adopt the Sydney AFL approach and mix and match.
Say you have a gun 1 team club at "Eastern Creek" they play in the 1st grade western comp, if they grow and add teams then they can be added in at the appropriate level.
Like wise you may have a existing two team club who just doesn't have the skill level to play in the top grade, place their "1st team" in 2nd grade and their "2nd"team in the 3rd grade.

That's the same way a lot of rural competitions do it, and it works quite well bar the odd instance of a team playing above their Grade due to a couple of gun recruits. But it evens out in the long term.

Let me tell you right now that Subbies aren't interested.

I suggest this as a strategy back in 2011, but they've just gone along on the same old shit bar splitting Sixth Division geographically.

 

[Heavyd]

Northshore competiton -would be a cracker

Mosman
Forest
Newport
Barker
Brothers
Lindfield
St Ives
Beecroft
Hunters Hill
Knox

 

[Tommy Tudehope]

More thoughts on a geographic breakdown - might be better as a one-off knockout FA Cup style system.

While some Div 1/2 sides would belt Div 5/6 side I think the disparity between divisions is often exaggerated.

City/East

Irish
Maccabi
Clovelly

Rockdale
Colleagues
Waverley
St George
UNSW
Buraneer
Grammar

Inner West

Balmain
Harlequins
Alexandria
Drummoyne
Petersham
St Pats
Briars
Old Iggies

Nthn Beaches

Forest
Newport
ICMS
Terry Hills
Manly Savers

North Shore

Roseville
St Ives
Lindfield
Mosman
Knox
Barker
Hunters Hill
Brothers
Chatswood

West

Blue Mtns
Blacktown
Campbelltown
Dundas
UWS
Hawkesbury Valley
Oatley
Farirvale
Merrylands

North West

Hornsby
Epping
Hills
Redfield OB
Kings OB
Rouse Hill
Mac Uni
Beecroft
Lane Cove

 

[Whale berry]

"More thoughts on a geographic breakdown - might be better as a one-off knockout FA Cup style system"

Not quite sure how this fits into the geographic structure?

 

[Tommy Tudehope]

"More thoughts on a geographic breakdown - might be better as a one-off knockout FA Cup style system"

Not quite sure how this fits into the geographic structure?

As in you play clubs in your geographic area first in a knockout style competition.

 

[Whale berry]

As in you play clubs in your geographic area first in a knockout style competition.

I know a lot of people will not like this but we should have a "subbies cup" played mid week, organised along the lines you mention.
It will be more even because, particularly in the early rounds, the top teams probably will play mixed grade teams, because of injuries and work commitments etc. The lower division teams would relish the chance to put some of the big boys in their place.
Everyone loves the David and Goliath stories that come out of these comps.

 

[Rugby Central]

I know a lot of people will not like this but we should have a "subbies cup" played mid week, organised along the lines you mention.

I don't think it would be a matter of "people will not like this". On the contrary, I think most would love the concept. The problem is for any club below Div 1 or possibly Div 2, it's not worth the risk. The Clubs just don't have the depth to cover 1st grade players that get injured mid-week.

As a Whale I'm sure you're aware of these very issues around the U85kgs comp. It was a great comp but Club's just couldn't support it as their numbers were too thin once a few injuries happened.

It's a shame because it would be fantastic to see either a Subbies Cup or reinvigorated U85kgs comp going.

 

[Tommy Tudehope]

I don't think it would be a matter of "people will not like this". On the contrary, I think most would love the concept. The problem is for any club below Div 1 or possibly Div 2, it's not worth the risk. The Clubs just don't have the depth to cover 1st grade players that get injured mid-week.

As a Whale I'm sure you're aware of these very issues around the U85kgs comp. It was a great comp but Club's just couldn't support it as their numbers were too thin once a few injuries happened.

It's a shame because it would be fantastic to see either a Subbies Cup or reinvigorated U85kgs comp going.

Surely it could be managed in such a way that there is as little disruption to the normal schedule as possible? For example, it could be the case that at least your first two games are played against a club in your own division.

 

[Whale berry]

Surely it could be managed in such a way that there is as little disruption to the normal schedule as possible? For example, it could be the case that at least your first two games are played against a club in your own division.

Many moons ago Port Hacking used to host the "Caltex Cup" on a Wed night during preseason. I was playing for another old 2nd division club and we used to love coming up against the 1st div clubs. (now Shute Shield).
Some times we got flogged and sometimes we would jag a win.
Yes guys would get injured and the coaches were pissed but the players loved it.

 

[Rugby Central]

Surely it could be managed in such a way that there is as little disruption to the normal schedule as possible? For example, it could be the case that at least your first two games are played against a club in your own division.

It's not the scheduling that's an issue. If you're a 3 team Club with only a few extra reserves running around the lower grades, if 2 blokes get injured the week before Splendour in the Grass or Uni holdays or a good dump of snow, all of a sudden you're looking at either a forfiet or a hiding to nothing. Even if you have the numbers, can the players necessarily make the step up and not get injured themselves. I know this is a glass half empty view point but it's the lived experience.

I would personally prefer a little more flexibility to move games around. Particularly in the lower divisions withy fewer teams or those clubs with Colts. One game of Colts or 1st Grade on a Friday night would raise more revenue than most Saturday games and then most people could get away for the weekend. Just think how many more people could enjoy their own Club and get down to the waratahs on a Saturday game

 

[Whale berry]

It's not the scheduling that's an issue. If you're a 3 team Club with only a few extra reserves running around the lower grades, if 2 blokes get injured the week before Splendour in the Grass or Uni holdays or a good dump of snow, all of a sudden you're looking at either a forfiet or a hiding to nothing. Even if you have the numbers, can the players necessarily make the step up and not get injured themselves. I know this is a glass half empty view point but it's the lived experience.

I would personally prefer a little more flexibility to move games around. Particularly in the lower divisions withy fewer teams or those clubs with Colts. One game of Colts or 1st Grade on a Friday night would raise more revenue than most Saturday games and then most people could get away for the weekend. Just think how many more people could enjoy their own Club and get down to the waratahs on a Saturday game

I like the concept of playing a game/grade on a Friday night, maybe turn it into a "derby" type game.
At least with the colts playing on a Friday night, the can get on the booze for the weekend rather than turn up on Sat with a hangover.

 

[Pfitzy]

I know a lot of people will not like this but we should have a "subbies cup" played mid week, organised along the lines you mention.

Counts out every single club who have players that do shift work.

Understand also that some clubs barely get numbers to training for one night a week, so getting them for a game - as well as having the facilities to host a game under lights, is fantasy.

 

[southsider]

@tommy

I think us Oatley people would appreciate being in the southern comp seeing as we are all of 10mins away from the shire

 

[Tommy Tudehope]

@tommy

I think us Oatley people would appreciate being in the southern comp seeing as we are all of 10mins away from the shire

Sorry mate ... need to spend less time behind the keyboard, clearly.

 

[Whale berry]

Counts out every single club who have players that do shift work.

Understand also that some clubs barely get numbers to training for one night a week, so getting them for a game - as well as having the facilities to host a game under lights, is fantasy.

Geez, your a glass half full kind of guy?

 

[Pfitzy]

Just frustrated I suppose. I'll say up front that I'm white collar, so personally for me, rugby worked well when I played. The problem was it worked for barely anyone else, so I got frustrated with being Mr Clubman real quick.

Rugby is, by and large, still a white collar game - you can say its inclusive, catering for all shapes and sizes, and insofar as the game itself, that would be correct.

But the way the Subbies comp is set up, some people would have to shift their lives around it, particularly if they're not 9-5 and alternatives are barely ever considered.

Friday night games is probably the best compromise you could get to, but any club requiring more than three grades will continue to be the domain of the white collar old boys brigade on a Saturday.

 

[barbarian]

Well to be fair Subbies put the onus for schedule changes on the clubs themselves, which given their staffing and budget is probably the best they can do.

If you want to play your game/s on a Friday night or Sunday, just get the other club to agree to it.

Friday night may well be hard to find a ground, as a lot of lit grounds are used for juniors at that time I think.
.