Sydney Shake Up

[Hugh Jarse]

In case you missed it on the other threads:

A KERRY Packer-style revolution of rugby union is being planned, with Balmain Rugby Club in discussions with Channel Ten and Fox Sports about staging a new million-dollar competition.

Balmain president Warren Livingstone, who has previously brought internationals Sabastien Chabal, Drew Mitchell and Matt Giteau to play for the suburban rugby club, is behind the idea.

The founder of Aussie supporter group The Fanatics wants to establish a competition that bridges the gap between Super Rugby and the Shute Shield.

The eight-team competition would start after the Super Rugby season ended and include double-headers at Leichhardt Oval on Friday nights.

Teams would be made up of Super Rugby players not selected for the Wallabies, emerging young players, rugby league converts and international marquees.

Prizemoney of $1 million would be offered on a "winner-take-all" seven-week competition, which would be made up of Sydney clubs including Balmain.

Just as cricket changed when the World Series Cricket was started in 1977 - recently documented in Channel 9's Howzat: Kerry Packer's War - Livingstone said a similar revolution was needed in rugby.

"This isn't supposed to be anti-establishment, but something new is needed," Livingstone said.

"The reality is something new needs to come along, because the Shute Shield's days are numbered."

Livingstone, who has helped guide Balmain from suburban fifth division in 2005 to promotion to first division next year, said the unnamed competition would look at rule changes to make it more attacking.

"It's got to be based on attacking rugby if it's on prime time," he said. "With the rugby league double-headers on Channel 9, we want to offer something to other networks to show."

Former Wallaby Ryan Cross, who now plays with Balmain, said a competition to bridge the gap between Super Rugby and Shute Shield was needed.

"South Africa and New Zealand have the Curry Cup and ITM Cup, but we haven't got anything," Cross said.

http://inner-west-courier.whereilive.com.au/news/story/1m-rah-rah-revolution​

 

[the coach]

David Lord has an interesting viewpoint:
http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/09/06/grassroots-rugby-is-stuffed/

 

[thierry dusautoir]

I doubt this would ever happen, ARU power brokers wouldnt let something liek this go through which would kill the shute shield. Effectively this takes out any contracted player and i doubt ten would take a 'primetime' punt on a comp that will have contracted players of any way shape or form. I may be wrong but.
Shute shield does need to change but its not that doom and gloom gordon and randwick will rise again there lower grades are running solid. One onyl need look to the QLD comp at how teams like Wests have broken out of the depths of running into the red to now being back on their feet and on the up.
Maybe the option is shutting down some of the expansion teams that are failing and move things around. People need to accept clubs like Gordon and Randwick are never going to be shut down to much history and pride there. But i can see clubs like West Harbour & Penrith getting the flick for places like Campbelltown.
Subbies paying player shsould be made illegal and shute shield team should be capped at 50,000 to be spread amongst non-pro players. Super 15 players shouldnt be paid and should be assigned.

 

[Andrew B Cox]

Balmain are a well organised unit and want to play on a bigger stage, however, for commercial TV to be interested, it will probably need to be a national comp. The high cost of production dictates it needs a big audience to break even down the track.

But hey, if they build it, I'll be one of the first through the gate!

 

[Bruce Ross]

Wow! Rugby’s answer to World Series Cricket has arrived. Sue for peace immediately, John O’Neill, or you’ll soon be road kill.

“A KERRY Packer-style revolution of rugby union is being planned, with Balmain Rugby Club in discussions with Channel Ten and Fox Sports about staging a new million-dollar competition.”

They think big at Balmain Rugby Club. It’s going to be shown on both pay TV and free-to-air! SANZAR couldn’t swing that but they didn’t have the vision and stature of Warren Livingstone. Not surprisingly the rules – they’re actually Laws, Warren – are going to be changed “to make it more attacking.”

"It's got to be based on attacking rugby if it's on prime time," he said. "With the rugby league double-headers on Channel 9, we want to offer something to other networks to show." So not only pay TV and free-to-air, but “prime time” on Friday nights.

This is a product which will very soon be transmitted globally, including to countries where rugby is unknown – or perhaps especially to countries where rugby is unknown.

The Livingstone competition is going to "bridge the gap" between Super Rugby and the Shute Shield whose “days are numbered". To bridge that gap they’ve already got one club signed up – Balmain – which would absolutely overwhelm any of the Shute Shield teams.

A seven-week extravaganza involving double-headers at the magnificent Leichhardt Oval on Friday nights. Sell-out crowds are guaranteed. No fooling about with finals. Prize money of $1 million “winner-take-all”. The other clubs get nothing for their investment in “Super Rugby players not selected for the Wallabies” – who’ll be readily released by the Super franchises; “emerging young players, rugby league converts and international marquees.” It’s a great business model which should attract any number of canny private owners. Don't be surprised if the Russian oligarchs move in to outbid the locals.

A century or so after Rugby League was established Rugby is facing its second great schism. And this time there is every chance that our once great code will not survive.
.

 

[It is what it is]

What will the jingo song to mimic "C'mon Aussie, C'Mon" sound like for the new rugby comp?

"Well you're up against the 3rd best you know, this replaces Shute Shield let's go
To watch the best rugby mish mash of clubs you've ever seen.
For JON has been clueless, and left the local clubs shoeless,
And the ARU budget is bloody lean.
Cross is limping round like a crock, Easts/Randwick are arguing about the colour of their socks,
Manly want their Brumbies, even threatening to go and see Kate Lundy,
And Deans has put the Wallabies on the rocks"

...C'Mon........

 

[the coach]

Wow! Rugby’s answer to World Series Cricket has arrived. Sue for peace immediately, John O’Neill, or you’ll soon be road kill.

“A KERRY Packer-style revolution of rugby union is being planned, with Balmain Rugby Club in discussions with Channel Ten and Fox Sports about staging a new million-dollar competition.”

They think big at Balmain Rugby Club. It’s going to be shown on both pay TV and free-to-air! SANZAR couldn’t swing that but they didn’t have the vision and stature of Warren Livingstone. Not surprisingly the rules – they’re actually Laws, Warren – are going to be changed “to make it more attacking.”

"It's got to be based on attacking rugby if it's on prime time," he said. "With the rugby league double-headers on Channel 9, we want to offer something to other networks to show." So not only pay TV and free-to-air, but “prime time” on Friday nights.

This is a product which will very soon be transmitted globally, including to countries where rugby is unknown – or perhaps especially to countries where rugby is unknown.

The Livingstone competition is going to "bridge the gap" between Super Rugby and the Shute Shield whose “days are numbered". To bridge that gap they’ve already got one club signed up – Balmain – which would absolutely overwhelm any of the Shute Shield teams.

A seven-week extravaganza involving double-headers at the magnificent Leichhardt Oval on Friday nights. Sell-out crowds are guaranteed. No fooling about with finals. Prize money of $1 million “winner-take-all”. The other clubs get nothing for their investment in “Super Rugby players not selected for the Wallabies” – who’ll be readily released by the Super franchises; “emerging young players, rugby league converts and international marquees.” It’s a great business model which should attract any number of canny private owners. Don't be surprised if the Russian oligarchs move in to outbid the locals.

A century or so after Rugby League was established Rugby is facing its second great schism. And this time there is every chance that our once great code will not survive.
.

Well said!
What a crock of shit this proposal is.
Who is going to cover the expenses of the Shute Shield teams who can't even afford a 22 game home-and-away competition?
Are the likes of Penrith, Gordon, West Harbour etc going to be interested in a competition they have no chance of winning or are they not invited?
Sounds like an opportunity for Uni to boost their coffers by another $1m.

 

[Andrew B Cox]

This proposal is so good that Warren Livingstone doesn't even need to mention his ideas to Fox Sports for them to get on board!

Anyone watching 'The Rugby Club' last night will know that Fox deny any knowledge of it!

Happy to see this comp burst forth into life, but I can't help thinking that it all sounds like someone's being mischievous.

 

[XVProps]

I do tend to agree. My subbies club are going to be relegated from Div 1 this year. Late in the season we have struggled for numbers once the season rolls on.

As an example this year in subbies has been a bit of a mess. The decision to scrap Div 4 and throw all these clubs into Div 3 has caused some of the clubs promoted (Mac Uni, Merrylands) to have tough years.

I really think it is time to restructure the divisions.

Div 5 - 1 team
Div 4- 2 teams
Div 3- 3 teams plus colts
Div 2- 4 teams plus colts
Div 1- 4 teams plus colts

Any clubs that have left over players, and one team clubs should play for the Halligan Cup which should have a set draw at the start of the season.

We have two clubs in Div 1 that couldn't field 5th grade teams by the end of the season, and how the heck are community clubs supposed to attract over 90 players each week in 1st Division.

We need to support the clubs

I agree as well. Drop back to four grades and colts. That'll relieve the pressure on clubs to fill the lower grades, and also reduce the financial strain on paying for five grades. Many lower grade players are finishing the season playing two to three games, depending on injuries. It would also shorten the day, so bus trips when required, don't have to leave a early.

 

[Prodigy]

I do tend to agree. My subbies club are going to be relegated from Div 1 this year. Late in the season we have struggled for numbers once the season rolls on.

As an example this year in subbies has been a bit of a mess. The decision to scrap Div 4 and throw all these clubs into Div 3 has caused some of the clubs promoted (Mac Uni, Merrylands) to have tough years.

I really think it is time to restructure the divisions.

Div 5 - 1 team
Div 4- 2 teams
Div 3- 3 teams plus colts
Div 2- 4 teams plus colts
Div 1- 4 teams plus colts

Any clubs that have left over players, and one team clubs should play for the Halligan Cup which should have a set draw at the start of the season.

We have two clubs in Div 1 that couldn't field 5th grade teams by the end of the season, and how the heck are community clubs supposed to attract over 90 players each week in 1st Division.

We need to support the clubs

I like the idea Ozzie Bob, however I would still suggest that Division 3 is 4 straight grades. The Colts competition that runs alongside the Division 3 competition should be open to all lower division clubs, but still be aligned with Division 3 clubs.

 

[grievous]

I agree as well. Drop back to four grades and colts. That'll relieve the pressure on clubs to fill the lower grades, and also reduce the financial strain on paying for five grades. Many lower grade players are finishing the season playing two to three games, depending on injuries. It would also shorten the day, so bus trips when required, don't have to leave a early.

Thats what they said about dropping 5ths in Grade nearly ten years ago and comp is weaker not stronger, do you just cull teams in weaker seasons?
Its a poor response rather than maybe give clubs some incentive or reward to keep 5 teams from go to woe.
Why should Cambelltown stay up if they pulled their fifths from the start

 

[Rugby Central]

I do tend to agree. My subbies club are going to be relegated from Div 1 this year. Late in the season we have struggled for numbers once the season rolls on.

As an example this year in subbies has been a bit of a mess. The decision to scrap Div 4 and throw all these clubs into Div 3 has caused some of the clubs promoted (Mac Uni, Merrylands) to have tough years.

I really think it is time to restructure the divisions.

Div 5 - 1 team
Div 4- 2 teams
Div 3- 3 teams plus colts
Div 2- 4 teams plus colts
Div 1- 4 teams plus colts

Any clubs that have left over players, and one team clubs should play for the Halligan Cup which should have a set draw at the start of the season.

We have two clubs in Div 1 that couldn't field 5th grade teams by the end of the season, and how the heck are community clubs supposed to attract over 90 players each week in 1st Division.

We need to support the clubs

Just as a differnet approach how about shortening the season. Not in duration but games. Play 8 clubs per division with more bye weeks and players will have more time to recover or have time off. It's sometimes easy to forget that rugby is fairly low on many guys priorities and they just can't play week in week out for 20 weeks.

I'd challenge any Sydney rugby administrator to say that ski season doesn't cause problems. Hell, provide a Ski week bye and you could probably get a fat sponsorship from the Thredbo or Perisher.

Player welfare, full sides each match and money for the competition...TRIFECTA

 

[the coach]

From The Fitz Files today (grain of salt usually but sometimes has substance).

WHAT THEY SAID
Jeff Sayle, on Randwick Rugby Club's parlous financial state: ''If we don't amalgamate we would probably cease to be here.'' Staggering.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/the-fitz-files/its-time-to-revisit-the-crawford-report-20120817-24e2f.html#ixzz23sTEiZvg

All the more reason to shake up Sydney Rugby.

Is the Wicks like a run down British Country Manor house?

A couple of other Shute Shield clubs in a similar state as well if one listens to the words on the street.

The proposed "merger" between Randwick and Marrickville RSL is not going to proceed.
The club is finally going to tell the members WTF is going on:
NOTICE TO MEMBERS
MEMBERS INFORAMTION MEETING
SUNDAY 23RD SEPTEMBER 2012
12PM AT THE CLUB
Members are invited to a meeting with
The Board of the Club to discuss the future
direction of the licensed club
On behalf of the Board
Jeffrey Sayle President

NOTE: THIS IS THE LICENSED CLUB, NOT THE FOOTBALL CLUB

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Well said!
What a crock of shit this proposal is.
Who is going to cover the expenses of the Shute Shield teams who can't even afford a 22 game home-and-away competition?
Are the likes of Penrith, Gordon, West Harbour etc going to be interested in a competition they have no chance of winning or are they not invited?
Sounds like an opportunity for Uni to boost their coffers by another $1m.

If you read the articles they aren't talking if using any existing clubs. From the gist of it they'll be all new teams. So there'll be no added financial pressures to any teams.

 

[the coach]

If you read the articles they aren't talking if using any existing clubs. From the gist of it they'll be all new teams. So there'll be no added financial pressures to any teams.

Thanks WCRugger for pointing that out; I realised this later after re-reading the article. My first response was a bit emotional!
However, I think that creates the same problem as the ARC (is that what it was called?) ie no tribal association with the teams so no bums on seats and difficulty attracting TV audience.
I've criticised others in this forum in the past for shooting every suggestion for change down in flames without giving it a chance so I'm trying to be open minded about this, but I really can't see Fox or Channel 10 going up against the NRL in prime time on a Friday night with the costs associated. Where will the sell out crowds come from and where will the TV sponsorship come from?
If it's starting after the end of the S15 season it will be potentially running against the Rugby Championship and NRL playoffs.
Mr Livingstone (I presume!) needs to get the ARU on board or there's no chance of the S15 franchises releasing their players.

 

[stonecutter]

Looking forward to next season and the competition structure it appears there are moves afoot to make some changes. Apparently the 16 week competition is to stay but i'd suggest that the top 3 teams at the end of the rounds of playing each club be grouped with the bottom 3 as the top 3 are likely to continue into the finals anyway and are therefor rewarded for their play over the first 11 weeks when all is equal. The middle 6 (4th to 9th) then get to play off over the last 5 weeks for the remaining 3 spots in a top 6 finals. You still get 1v2, 1v3 and 2v3 over the last 5 weeks plus the intrigue of a group of closely skilled teams battling for 4th to 6th. Food for thought.