Sydney JRU Vs NSW Country JRU 2013

[Hugh Jarse]

"Leg lifting" is becoming a bit like the no ball for overstepping in cricket, - as long as some part of the foot is grounded behind the line, it is not a no ball.

With the leg lift, as long as some part of the lifters hand is on the pants, then it is not a leg lift. Will the logical extension of this see those basket ball length "shorts" being worn by school boys to get around the rule interpretation?

 

[The Spectator]

Without being disrespectful to the Country boys, how can 11 boys from Country be selected in the 15s when they were beaten comprehensively by Sydney and held scoreless? Even last year when the result was within 8-9 points in the 15s, Country only had 8 players selected.

 

[tight hamstring]

Probably because many of them should not have been selected in the first place . Gordon beat Country 49 - 0 . What goes around comes around .

 

[tight hamstring]

To clarify many Sydney ( Norths ) players should not have been selected in Sydney .

 

[Inside Shoulder]

To clarify many Sydney ( Norths ) players should not have been selected in Sydney .

I dont think that actually overcomes the validity of the point - and I happen to agree with the proposition, by the way.

 

[Wood Rat]

"Leg lifting" is becoming a bit like the no ball for overstepping in cricket, - as long as some part of the foot is grounded behine the line it is not a no ball.

With the leg lift, as long as some part of the lifters hand is on the pants, then it is not a leg lift. Will the logical extension of this see those basket ball length "shorts" being worn by school boys to get around the rule interpretation?

The sydney guys tried that and it resulted in the the third free kick

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I guess that the interpretation used by some refs (as per my OP - some part of the hand on the shorts) is not universally used.

A well executed lineout lift is a thing of grace and beauty. This grace and beauty is achieved through lots and lots and lots of work on timing and technique.

IMHO many Junior Coaches spend too much of their time on creating tricky moves and calls, and too little time on teaching the basic techniques of the lift.

I reckon that the ARU needs to approach the Australian Ballet Company and/or Gymnastics Australia for some specialist advice on how to coach lineout pod work. These organisations lift participants as bread and butter and could probably teach Rugby a thing or two about how to do it efficiently and effectively.

I believe it is more an issue of timing and acceleration than outright brute strength.

 

[tight hamstring]

I dont think that actually overcomes the validity of the point - and I happen to agree with the proposition, by the way.

I agree .

 

[10to12]

I dont think that actually overcomes the validity of the point - and I happen to agree with the proposition, by the way.

Having watched the game yesterday the sydney 15s boys were outplayed in the set pieces so the benefit of the doubt went to the country boys which I agree with.
Sydney backs were superior to the country boys but hardly played well, with many passes going behind the man and the 10 regularly taking the ball up so the wings rarely saw the ball.

 

[Monty Python]

I also noted that CHS Hooker E Craig was listed as #5 in the Juniors team. Interesting choice for a second rower. Craig struggled at times during Schools games, but his lineout throwing would have been a significant improvement had the Juniors employed him in that role, as he doesn't really come across as a Second Rower.

How a boy who is selected into Combined States for National Championships as a #2 manages to be selected as a Second Rower for Club Championships is beyond me. However given the whole U17 selection process, I am not surprised in the least.

After asking around, it seems Ed Craig was brought into the Sydney 17s side from the shadow players (as noted in your team list earlier in this thread Hugh J) for injured second rower Austin Black (Wests). Though not a second rower, they wanted Craig in the side and he was first cab off the rank on their shadow list, so figured at 6ft and 90+kg or so, he could fill the breach. (Based on info from other threads, he missed out on the extra SJRU 17s Saturday selection trial and trial game at Nth Syd Oval due to Aust. Schoolboys Combined States team commitments). Given he got selected in the NSW U17s side, agreeing to play second row seems to have paid off for him. Perhaps his size fits the larger NSW Schoolboys teams better at hooker (and he does throw very accurately and consistently), but the smaller SJRU teams he fits better at breakaway and even second row?!

Clearly he can play rugby, but nobody is sure where to put the lad. Looking back through programs and recollection of games: Selected as #8 for Eastwood U17 Reps but played at #7 in the tournament. Selected and played Syd v Country at #5 as injury fill-in (no idea what position he's earmarked for in NSW 17s). Selected and played as #2 for CHS 1sts, and Combined States. A true utility forward it seems. Clearly, he's happy to get a run in whatever position. Obviously, different coaches and selectors see different skills, and adaptability. I would think next years schoolboys and colts will sort out where his skills are best utilised.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Young Craig gets a fair bit of airtime on these threads. For the time being, I'd like to see him at #2 for NSW U17 and backup for loose forward. This would help him with his tilt at a hooker for NSW I or II next year. ( I am assuming he is in Yr 11). It wouldn't be a surprise to see him pop up at another school association, but I hope he will stay with CHS, and drop into Woodies Colts 2's or 3's next year.

Selectors for Rep teams look for skills in a specialist area initially, but they also look for a kid who can cover many positions, so in the event of injury you have replacements at hand and flexibility in how you can manage the bench. Craig seems to be one of these. His lineout throws seem to be better than those I saw from the listed #2 and I am surprised that the Sydney coach didn't rearrange his team and give Craig a go at #2 when the lineout was pants.

 

[Hugie]

Having watched the game yesterday the sydney 15s boys were outplayed in the set pieces so the benefit of the doubt went to the country boys which I agree with.
Sydney backs were superior to the country boys but hardly played well, with many passes going behind the man and the 10 regularly taking the ball up so the wings rarely saw the ball.

I watched all the age games and the thing that stood out for me was how much better the Sydney teams were in repositioning thier backs to either attack or defend. In all ages I thought the Country boys at least held thier own in the forwards and in the set piece but as soon as they had to reset the Sydney backs had it all over them. This was reflected in how Sydney scored their points, always from backlines with big overlaps. The country points came through the forwards (it was Kieren Bonin scored U17 try from a driving maul).
It seems to me to be a major coaching problem for country as this is a learned skill you don't need "talent" to get this right you need "practice". If country coaching (club, district and country) was to focus on this area (instead of trick moves) for the next couple of years we could see some country upsets. At least if country backs could learn to shut down the Sydney backs then force a forwards contest.

 

[Rahrah]

The reserve hooker #19 from manly was considerably more accurate with line out throws in both trial matches (central coast u18s and Oakhill) but despite this was made reserve and only got small amount of game time yesterday...even then managed to accurately and effectively throw to the back whereas #2 had to resort to repeatedly throwing to the front which Country were easily able to predict. Suspect Eastwood coach keen to provide Eastwood player with as much game time as possible so he could be seen by NSW selectors no matter how it was affecting the team.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Having watched the game yesterday the sydney 15s boys were outplayed in the set pieces so the benefit of the doubt went to the country boys which I agree with.
Sydney backs were superior to the country boys but hardly played well, with many passes going behind the man and the 10 regularly taking the ball up so the wings rarely saw the ball.

Well I must bow to the fact that you actually saw the game!
Did you think that the Sydney pigs may have followed, and suffered for, the current wisdom for anything u18 of trying to pick 5 backrowers - if not 8?

 

[10to12]

I watched all the age games and the thing that stood out for me was how much better the Sydney teams were in repositioning thier backs to either attack or defend. In all ages I thought the Country boys at least held thier own in the forwards and in the set piece but as soon as they had to reset the Sydney backs had it all over them. This was reflected in how Sydney scored their points, always from backlines with big overlaps. The country points came through the forwards (it was Kieren Bonin scored U17 try from a driving maul).
It seems to me to be a major coaching problem for country as this is a learned skill you don't need "talent" to get this right you need "practice". If country coaching (club, district and country) was to focus on this area (instead of trick moves) for the next couple of years we could see some country upsets. At least if country backs could learn to shut down the Sydney backs then force a forwards contest.

Hugie, Totally agree. Comes about from weekly hard games, club/school, which gets the Sydney boys playing a faster game. It will be v hard to get it into the country boys.

 

[10to12]

Well I must bow to the fact that you actually saw the game!
Did you think that the Sydney pigs may have followed, and suffered for, the current wisdom for anything u18 of trying to pick 5 backrowers - if not 8?

IS , No I think the starting tight five have all been picked true to position (and res front row) with the res probably filling that 'wisdom". Their front line hooker broke his leg the night before at Sydney training which I'm sure was a huge blow.Possibly it lies in not picking the right guys originally or its an age group that isn't that strong in the front and second rows. Looking at the 16s, they seem to understand the importance of tight/ platform style of footy.

 

[Non Political]

Suspect Eastwood coach keen to provide Eastwood player with as much game time as possible so he could be seen by NSW selectors no matter how it was affecting the team.[/quote]
Not true. Coach is not an Eastwood coach anymore, now with Parramatta and not fond of Eastwood.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

One would hope that a representative coach would not be playing any petty club favouritism politics.

If as you say he is now not fond of Eastwood, one hopes that he is objective, professional and ethical enough to set aside past "issues".

Sometimes people will put the tin foil hat on to find conspiracy where there is none. Sometimes Coaches simply make mistakes and name boys out of position. Sometimes, (lead by the example set by our former National Coach) they do not use their bench as effectively as they should have/could have.
Sometimes they get too focused on the minor detail about what their team is doing that they forget about the bigger picture.

Coaches often hate losing games as much as players, and do not go out of their way to penalise "better" players by limiting their game time at the expense of a lesser skilled player (in their opinion). Some would claim that this was a characteristic of our former National Coach.

Sometimes parents, relatives and associates have an inflated opinion of the skills of the player they are watching/supporting. They always have more time to focus on the relative merits of that particular player as opposed the 23 players that a Coach is supposed to monitor.

 

[Non Political]

One would hope that a representative coach would not be playing any petty club favouritism politics.

If as you say he is now not fond of Eastwood, one hopes that he is objective, professional and ethical enough to set aside past "issues".




You're right was just trying to point out that there was no favouritism to Eastwood boy as suggested by Rahrah

 

[Monty Python]

The reserve hooker #19 from manly was considerably more accurate with line out throws in both trial matches / snip / Suspect Eastwood coach keen to provide Eastwood player with as much game time as possible so he could be seen by NSW selectors no matter how it was affecting the team.

I notice that #19 William Cronin wasn't selected in the NSW squad (
http://nswjuniors.rugbynet.com.au/default.asp) so perhaps a case of sour grapes bringing on claims of coach bias? Favouritism sounds unlikely based on what Non Political says above. Also, I don't think the U17s coach has any connection with this age group? Logic says this would be hopeless behaviour as a coach if it were true. I suspect Mr Jarse is correct in the more innocent reasons for reduced playing time. Lastly, #2 Rohhan Zebib certainly has the credentials for hooker based on past performances (putting aside the lineout throw accuracy issues of Sunday). Basd on Mr Jarse's assessment, with Craig as well, there are at least two hooker options in the squad.