Sydney Colts - 2016
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
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Seymour Butz
Larry Dwyer (12)
Sydney Uni v Eastwood colts last weekend : heard reports that Eastwood won all three trial games and have enough players for 5 colts teams.
Edit: apparently they might give extra colts to Beecroft or Epping subbies clubs who have colts sides. Or how about they sell them to the highest bidder - given shortage of players in general, and the need for cash ... ?!
Edit: apparently they might give extra colts to Beecroft or Epping subbies clubs who have colts sides. Or how about they sell them to the highest bidder - given shortage of players in general, and the need for cash ... ?!
the baz
Alfred Walker (16)
I thought it was just a trial and there were no teams, just players having a run and coaches seeing where players they may fit in?
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
^^^ IIRC the Shoremen only fielded two colts teams in against the Hobbits last year as well.
Despite that, they went on and fielded competitive teams every week in all 3 Colts grades.
All 3 teams made the finals, and they got there with the fewest number of players on their roster of all the clubs.
Who is playing trials this weekend?
Beasts are playing Highlanders.
Despite that, they went on and fielded competitive teams every week in all 3 Colts grades.
All 3 teams made the finals, and they got there with the fewest number of players on their roster of all the clubs.
Who is playing trials this weekend?
Beasts are playing Highlanders.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Suspect that the Rats will do better than the Marlins from Augustines this year on the basis that the father of one of the boys is also coach of Rats 1st grade.
the coach
Bob Davidson (42)
Wicks are playing the Rebels at Redmond Field Rockdale.
Grade and Colts on adjacent fields, normal comp kickoff times.
Lets get it right , the shoremen will have the numbers to field 3 strong teams or maybe even 4.
Blackers13
Syd Malcolm (24)
I watched three grades of Colts, Parra V Wests last Saturday. Both clubs appear to have plenty of numbers despite many being unavailable for the trial. The First grade game, although both sides interchanged freely in the 30+ degree heat, was very high standard considering it was the first run for the year. Both clubs have some very big and mobile forwards and some skill and speed in the backs. All games, as well as the grade games later, were played in great spirit and both clubs should be hopeful of a good year.
the baz
Alfred Walker (16)
I believe that the GM's of each club met and some have suggested they reject the new points system. I have not heard as to whether Sydney have discussed this further.
Dingasden
Ward Prentice (10)
Just in the issue of points system this is what the Sydney Uni president wrote in the 2015 Annual report. I'm not convinced his solution would help all other clubs play on a level playing field and that he doesn't really care
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Like the President of the Corporation, I am also on the record saying that the Player Points system is not fair.
If you are after a fair and equitable system, then NRC players (it's been two seasons of NRC, NRC is not new) should carry some player points loading, as should State U20 players (this model has been running for 2 years as well). Yet there has been no adjustment to the Player Points loading for players in these categories.
The early finish of the Shute Shield to accommodate NRC has reduced the ability of clubs to parachute their Super Rugby Rockstars into the Grade Teams Finals as has happened previously. This has taken some of the heat out of the topic for First Grade/Second Grade and the Premierships are better reflecting home/away form.
In Colts, it would seem that the NSW U20's are finding that last seasons Aust School Boys players may not necessarily have the mongrel and endurance to compete with players that have had a year (or 2 for some QLD players) of Colts rugby under their belt (a full pre season, 18 games, S&C programmes, no Under 19 Law variations, etc), meanwhile the SJRU Player Points System puts a fairly large loading on Aust Schoolboy representation.
Since it has been introduced, how many players have actually changed clubs to "level" the playing field based on their player points potentially breaching the Points Cap? It seems that the better/high points players are still being attracted to the clubs with the perceived "better programmes" AKA the usual suspects.
That being said, what system would work? In an open slather world with no Points cap, 120-0 thrashings of Penrith do little for Penrith and their Opponents or the competition in general.
If you are after a fair and equitable system, then NRC players (it's been two seasons of NRC, NRC is not new) should carry some player points loading, as should State U20 players (this model has been running for 2 years as well). Yet there has been no adjustment to the Player Points loading for players in these categories.
The early finish of the Shute Shield to accommodate NRC has reduced the ability of clubs to parachute their Super Rugby Rockstars into the Grade Teams Finals as has happened previously. This has taken some of the heat out of the topic for First Grade/Second Grade and the Premierships are better reflecting home/away form.
In Colts, it would seem that the NSW U20's are finding that last seasons Aust School Boys players may not necessarily have the mongrel and endurance to compete with players that have had a year (or 2 for some QLD players) of Colts rugby under their belt (a full pre season, 18 games, S&C programmes, no Under 19 Law variations, etc), meanwhile the SJRU Player Points System puts a fairly large loading on Aust Schoolboy representation.
Since it has been introduced, how many players have actually changed clubs to "level" the playing field based on their player points potentially breaching the Points Cap? It seems that the better/high points players are still being attracted to the clubs with the perceived "better programmes" AKA the usual suspects.
That being said, what system would work? In an open slather world with no Points cap, 120-0 thrashings of Penrith do little for Penrith and their Opponents or the competition in general.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
I agree NSW 20's should attract no less points than oz schoolboys.
Clubs should be capped with total registrations not starting sides.
Uni & Wicks are starting colts stars in 4 different grades each week to skirt the points cap.
Clubs should be capped with total registrations not starting sides.
Uni & Wicks are starting colts stars in 4 different grades each week to skirt the points cap.
redblack
Larry Dwyer (12)
The beasties will probably have a similar issue this year, some great recruits if all is true..(Particularly if NSW 20's attract additional points).. Looks like a 3 horse race to the finish...hopefully there is a surprise packet out there in at least one of the grades.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Is that to skirt the points cap, or are the players genuinely talented and consequently justify their selection in Grade while Colts eligible? Harry Jones, Jack Dempsey, and Corey Tulloch were all playing grade footy for their respective clubs while colts eligible. Sometimes injuries to grade players result in Colties spending extended periods in grade as Jack Maddocks and James Wilkinson did last year.
In terms of point about a club cap at total registrations, how would this be applied to a player (and their club) who has a season ending injury in the pre-season like Jack Clancey has had, or the situation where the player signs a pro contract mid season and disappears from the Sydney Colts scene like Lukhan Tui and Cameron Skelton have done in the past.
AussieDominance
Trevor Allan (34)
I actually agree with Sydney Uni here. What is the point of capping NRC and U20's as indicated above all clubs have got the aim of producing rep players. These players actually aren't that good in the club system the players that really should dominate and help clubs attract players are the Super Rugby players. Obviously the rules on the schoolboy representation helps to an extent hopefully even the playing field in terms of distribution of talented players at Colts age when clubs start receiving players into the Senior club.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
There are many many more examples from both Uni & Wicks in recent years.
The major difference is that their colts sides still ran out with maximum points.
Which is what happens when they recruit 1/2 dozen Oz schoolboys each year.
In regards to exemptions,in my view the Clancy's wouldn't be included in the club points, but players moving to greener pastures mid year obviously would.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
When NZL and SAF can run out an U20 team for the U20 World Cup that has large numbers of Super Rugby and ITM/Curry Cup players, then we should be encouraging out top level U20 players to be playing their Club footy at the highest level possible (NRC or Premier Grade Rugby, not Colts).
Given Supply and Demand (approx 25-30 Aust Schoolboys/Barbarians (6 points) and 60 NSW I, NSW II, CS (4 points)), some clubs are always going to land a few more high point players than others. Looking back over the various "Which Clubs Are the Class of 201X Going to?" it would appear that each year 4 clubs take the lions share of the Rockstars with the balance (usually 1 or two each being fairly evenly distributed}. Of the Lions Share group, 2 clubs are regularly there, and the other two recipients drift in and out of favour with the recent graduates. For a while Manly and Norths seemed to do well, but of late it has been Easts and Gordon that have recruited well.
It is not always clubs actively recruiting players. Gen X/Y and their parents (and heaven forbid Player Managers) are quite astute at reading tea leaves and working out which clubs will give them the best advantage of advancing to the next level whether that is U20's, NRC, or Super Rugby, based on their perceptions of the relative strengths of the colts programmes, club networks and opportunities.
This year Eastern Suburbs have landed quite a good crop of talented new colts players with impressive Schoolboy rugby CVs, many of whom are former Beastie juniors that attended local high schools (with or without enrollment anomalies), although they have been out of the Beastie Junior Club scene since U14s. Good to see some loyalty, but without crunching the numbers, I think they may struggle to stay under the Points Cap.
Given Supply and Demand (approx 25-30 Aust Schoolboys/Barbarians (6 points) and 60 NSW I, NSW II, CS (4 points)), some clubs are always going to land a few more high point players than others. Looking back over the various "Which Clubs Are the Class of 201X Going to?" it would appear that each year 4 clubs take the lions share of the Rockstars with the balance (usually 1 or two each being fairly evenly distributed}. Of the Lions Share group, 2 clubs are regularly there, and the other two recipients drift in and out of favour with the recent graduates. For a while Manly and Norths seemed to do well, but of late it has been Easts and Gordon that have recruited well.
It is not always clubs actively recruiting players. Gen X/Y and their parents (and heaven forbid Player Managers) are quite astute at reading tea leaves and working out which clubs will give them the best advantage of advancing to the next level whether that is U20's, NRC, or Super Rugby, based on their perceptions of the relative strengths of the colts programmes, club networks and opportunities.
This year Eastern Suburbs have landed quite a good crop of talented new colts players with impressive Schoolboy rugby CVs, many of whom are former Beastie juniors that attended local high schools (with or without enrollment anomalies), although they have been out of the Beastie Junior Club scene since U14s. Good to see some loyalty, but without crunching the numbers, I think they may struggle to stay under the Points Cap.
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