Sydney Colts - 2014

[The Incredible Plan]

Yep, I forgot what thread I was in. Sorry! .

I quite often find myself in that situation. On GAGR forums too.

Thanks for the colts insights all. Just catching up with several threads with a bit of time on holiday.



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[Tah and feathered]

Depending on time today, I may do a full wrap of the Round 3 player points situation.

Observations so far are that the same old teams/clubs are still reporting 0 point and "-" players, some players are still be inaccurately assessed, both over reported and under reported, and the Wicks Colts 1 Round 2 declared 41 point team has been recalculated to hit the magical 40 points. Some clubs/teams have improved their accuracy.

I noticed some points scores have changed and that Randwick colts 1 in round 2 are now on 40 points. My query on there points is Declan O'Donohue being 1 point. He played NSW2 in 2012 so last year would have been 4 points so this year is 3 points? This point system was bought in to stop Uni signing up every decent player but i dont see a problem if other clubs go over the points because they have recruited well. Most clubs fit under 40 points fairly comfortably and Uni are still close to there 40 so they still get some decent players just not 90% of them.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I had to reread the Rules re O'Donahue, and believe that the Wicks may have got it right with their assessment of 1 point for him.

While he was a 4 point player last year having played in Div 1 Aust Schoolboys champs in 2012, in 2014 he is a class F "All other player" = 2 point. He is no longer classified as E (4 points) because the criteria is Div 1 at Aust Schoolboys in 2013, which he did not attend. He could only classify as Class E if he played nine (50%) 1st grade Colts games for the Wicks last year. I do not think he played that number.

Given that he is a Class F player worth 2 points, then Wicks have applied a 1 point discount for local (played with Wicks in 2013).

Declan is a quality player that is probably "worth" 4 player points, and he would be chosen by many over the likes of the this years Y12 flankers who played Div 1 at Aust Schools Champs in 2013 as Y11 boys, and are therefore worth 4 points. The rules surrounding Player Points seem to contain some anomalies.

 

[Blackers13]

Depending on time today, I may do a full wrap of the Round 3 player points situation.

Observations so far are that the same old teams/clubs are still reporting 0 point and "-" players, some players are still be inaccurately assessed, both over reported and under reported, and the Wicks Colts 1 Round 2 declared 41 point team has been recalculated to hit the magical 40 points. Some clubs/teams have improved their accuracy.

Good, I noticed a couple of teams still recording players as 0

 

[Cattledog]

Depending on time today, I may do a full wrap of the Round 3 player points situation.

Observations so far are that the same old teams/clubs are still reporting 0 point and "-" players, some players are still be inaccurately assessed, both over reported and under reported, and the Wicks Colts 1 Round 2 declared 41 point team has been recalculated to hit the magical 40 points. Some clubs/teams have improved their accuracy.

Thanks Hugh,

One observation I'd make about the point system is that it is pretty general once you get past the top level. For example a kid could be a very experienced district junior player, a CHS 1sts rep, or even a Sydney U17's and then come into colts (the following year) as a 2 points alongside a player who has never played the game before who is also 2 points.

The funny thing is that potentially our Colts II are going to be more player points than our Colts 1 because it's full of new players to rugby. That doesn't seem to make sense to me?

I think if a club could prove that a player has never been registered on buddha or on the ARU MRA site or not played in the NSW schools rugby trials there is probably good cause to put these new players at 1 point.

Oh and former Penrith District juniors who register for other other colts clubs rather Penrith Colts should be 10 points with no hope of discounts ever!!!

 

[The Butts]

Thanks Hugh,

One observation I'd make about the point system is that it is pretty general once you get past the top level. For example a kid could be a very experienced district junior player, a CHS 1sts rep, or even a Sydney U17's and then come into colts (the following year) as a 2 points alongside a player who has never played the game before who is also 2 points.

The funny thing is that potentially our Colts II are going to be more player points than our Colts 1 because it's full of new players to rugby. That doesn't seem to make sense to me?

I think if a club could prove that a player has never been registered on buddha or on the ARU MRA site or not played in the NSW schools rugby trials there is probably good cause to put these new players at 1 point.

Oh and former Penrith District juniors who register for other other colts clubs rather Penrith Colts should be 10 points with no hope of discounts ever!!!

Good points Cattledog. I bought these problems up a number of weeks ago, and they really do affect both the Penrith and Gordon sides in particular.
When you are struggling with building your Colts, but yet you have to put all your new and untested players down as 2 points, you are almost over the points allowed immediately.
Then (in our cases) when you are just under the numbers to form a third grade, all your 2nd reserves throw out the whole calculations, because they all have to be 2 points.
Surely the SRU doesn't want us to tell the players we have fought so hard to attract, to leave rugby all together - or even worse - go to one of our opponents to let them keep building in an ever upward spiral????
I particularly like your "10 points" solution

 

[Gristlechewer]

I noticed some points scores have changed and that Randwick colts 1 in round 2 are now on 40 points. My query on there points is Declan O'Donohue being 1 point. He played NSW2 in 2012 so last year would have been 4 points so this year is 3 points? This point system was bought in to stop Uni signing up every decent player but i dont see a problem if other clubs go over the points because they have recruited well. Most clubs fit under 40 points fairly comfortably and Uni are still close to there 40 so they still get some decent players just not 90% of them.

Still not loving the Wicks T & F?
The lad only made his 15 man debut this year due to injury

 

[Hugh Jarse]

If he didn't play a season last year, with a season defined as 8 games, then one interpretation of the rules is that he did not qualify for a 1 point discount for "local", therefore he is two points and Wicks were 41 points.

@T&F when are Souths going to fix up some of the anomalies in their points calculations in their Colts 1 team? There is at least one player who was an Aust Schoolboy last year who is scored at less than 3 points which is the maximum discount allowed, similarly another lad who was at Aust School Div 1 champs in 2013 who is rated at < 50% of 4 points.

 

[couldabeen]

Round 4 coming up and what has happened to teams playing over the points or showing incorrect player points? Nothing and I don't think there will be

You are probably right. That is the point. All this to curtail Uni? Maybe.
If you have a good program and people want to be part of it - go for it!.
Randwick certainly made the most of their success. Manly and Souths are climbing that ladder with aplomb.
I believe in free markets and hate the idea of limiting free trade.
Remember please that there was a time when Uni were looking very seriously at being a Subbies team.
Ducking for cover now!

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

How many colts players from last year are playing grade for Uni? I am referring to those that are now overage.

 

[Moonball]

How many colts players from last year are playing grade for Uni?

From what I can see there are 8
Tom Robertson 2nds
Chris Ingate 2nds
Henry Clunies-Ross 2nds
Ethan Thomas 3rds
Rhys Griffiths 4ths
Fadi Saad 4ths
Jason Date 4ths
Nick Coaldrake 4ths

No wonder Uni is so strong in Colts again ORRRRR have most of them given up rugby because they know what is required to play for Uni

 

[Brian Westlake]

Still not loving the Wicks T & F?
The lad only made his 15 man debut this year due to injury

yeah but he played all the 7's program and broke his leg in Kiama IIRC

 

[Brian Westlake]

How many colts players from last year are playing grade for Uni?

From what I can see there are 8
Tom Robertson 2nds
Chris Ingate 2nds
Henry Clunies-Ross 2nds
Ethan Thomas 3rds
Rhys Griffiths 4ths
Fadi Saad 4ths
Jason Date 4ths
Nick Coaldrake 4ths

No wonder Uni is so strong in Colts again ORRRRR have most of them given up rugby because they know what is required to play for Uni

Baby Pulver in 3's too. Just the start for a budding halfback

 

[Cattledog]

All Penrith Juniors (& anyone looking for an Easter Rugby fix) can head down to Emu Park tomorrow to watch the Penrith DJRU U20's take on Randwick in Premier Colts. Colts II kick off at 1.20 and Colts I commences at 3pm.

Colts I will be looking to impress again after extremely solid performances in recent weeks against West Harbour (L 29 - 12) & Eastwood (L 33 - 5).

However, a big focus for Penrith Colts 1 will need to be on improving the second half performance. In recent weeks good first half performances which have see halftime scores of 12 nil and 14 -nil have not been carried through for the whole 80 mins. The 2014 Australian schools pairing of Short (scrumhalf) & Deegan (Flyhalf) will be dangerous for Randwick in Colts 1.

Tomorrows Colts games vs Penrith will be on Nepean No.2 because of No. 1 being waterlogged after recent rains. However, the canteen & all grandstand / changeroom facilities on No. 1 will be open for use by both teams.

The weather report says sunny & light winds but all parents, friends, & spectators might like to bring a fold up chair to be comfortable up on the Nepean No. 2. sideline.

 

[Dave Beat]

Baby Pulver in 3's too. Just the start for a budding halfback

Ah yes, it will interesting to see how he goes against the young Manly half Max Wood who is only in his 3rd year out of colts.

 

[Learned One]

@ The Butts #447

IMO. Both Gordon and Penrith should be able to field reserves in Colts 2, for zero points.

If the same eligibility rules apply in the finals, it could leave some clubs disadvantaged. Consider 2013 GFs

Manly v Uni
Eastwood v Uni
East v Uni

All reserves for Manly and Eastwood would count as fresh reserves while Uni could field rested but previously played reserves.
Is this how it's supposed to work?

 

[Eyes and Ears]

I believe reserves are not counted in final matches.

 

[Monty Python]

Eastwood Colts sides v West Harbour at Concord Oval tomorrow (19 April 2014):

 

[Tah and feathered]

I heard that Norths beat Parramatta today in 1st colts
The score was something like 40 to 17.

 

[Sideline Eye]

I heard that Norths beat Parramatta today in 1st colts
The score was something like 40 to 17.

No results up on the website as yet : http://www.nswrugby.com.au/NSWRugby/ShuteShield/DrawsResultsLadders/1stGradeColtsDrawsResults.aspx