Sydney Colts 2011

[Hugh Jarse]

The players know which clubs/teams are rorting the system, even if these are not technical breachs of eligibility rules.

Junior Jarse and his colts peers get a little bit p'd off that some of their opponents have had different teams turning out against them the second time they have played that club, and the sometimes wildly unexpected scores recorded in certain other games.

They are however somewhat immune to, and philisophical about, this having been exposed to similar every year at GF and Rep/Zone Selection times as they have walked the ARU Pathway through the junior village club age grade ranks and rep teams in the NSW State champs prior to colts.

Life is tough and unfair sometimes. This is just another lesson for them in lifes rich tapestry.

It is only a game that is played for keeps in heaven, and fun down here.

While one can "buy" premierships by exploiting the rules, respect must be earned and can not not demanded. The players know who the technical manipulators are and do not respect their "victories".

On one hand, you can not blame the clubs for exploiting loopholes in the rules.

The Clubs/teams did not make the loopholes, they simply use them.

Our administrators need to lift their game to eliminate the loopholes. Seems many of these may just be interested in the glory of the "positions of power" that they hold, rather than getting stuck in and righting the wrongs.

The main problem is rugby attracts competitive buggers and as soon as one loophole is closed, a competitive smarty pants will finds another to exploit. Until the game is reduced to tiddliwinks, we will continue to have "issues" and claims of rorting.

 

[Torn Hammy]

So they didn't break the rules but you think you can call it cheating?

Last time I looked uni only won 3rd grade, so I would call it arrogant and stupid. But not cheating. All clubs want their colts to progress to grade, but some will cope better than others and that is why the rules are so flexible.

There are 20 odd sports that involve university support and competition. Sports such as athletics and swimming even have international university games. Many of these competing athletes are on scholarships and all use facilities that would take into account the profits of the Warringah BBQ for the next 200 years. If fricken fencing and ultimate frisbee can align themselves with the unis, why can't rugby?

 

[Sully]

Repeat after me. I am a leaf on the wind. I am a leaf on the wind.

Remain calm.

 

[Done that]

Can't understand the grief that uni gets. Through their efforts, they have raised the interest in and benefits to every colts player in Sydney. And they will continue to improve the whole competition with their progressive attitude.

Does anyone seriously think that the other clubs would be offering help with education, employment and board if they weren't competing with uni?

In a couple of years things will have evened out and in twenty years all colts teams will be affiliated with an educational institution similar to gridiron (and rugby) in the U.S.

It doesn't bother me that Uni moves their players around between grade & colts .
If a player conforms with the requirements & rules of the competition he should be able to play wherever he is selected if he wishes.
I disagree however ,with your assertion that every colts player in Sydney benefits because of Uni's efforts , & wonder what evidence you have for that statement.
Do you honestly believe that all clubs offer a significant number of their players help with "education , employment & board " , to play colts football .
Certainly a small minority of players are offered inducements of some kind by some clubs , but it should be obvious that cash strapped clubs , which are the majority ,are going to direct most of their
available resources to their senior players.
Fortunately there are still a number of boys who , on leaving school , are quite happy to play with a local club with their mates , & don't have any expectations of payment or other fringe benefits .
However there are just as many who do.
Are you aware of just how many school leavers have managers for example ?
And do you honestly think that any other club can realistically compare their resources with those of Uni ?
Glibly saying that other clubs should simply raise their game to the same level or better as that of the Uni club , demonstrates an ignorance of the realities of the clubs competing in the Sydney competition.
Also what will change ..." in a couple of years "... that will produce this evening out that you predict ?
Why will all colts teams be affiliated with an educational system similar to gridiron ?
This is simply pie in the sky stuff ,& has no basis in reality I'm afraid.
Some clubs can't even field the required number of teams these days.
One or two clubs do have a relationship of a kind with an educational institution , but the benefits of these relationships are a drop in the ocean relative to the overall costs of maintaining a Shute Shield club.
Clearly the relationship between an educational facility & a district club can never be comparable to the relationship between Sydney University & it's Rugby club.
As I said previously , I have no complaints about Uni's manipulation of it's players between the grades & colts etc. They conform with the existing rules.
The reality is however , that the current situation which prevails , will continue to allow the domination of the premier Sydney Rugby competition by Uni. in all it's levels.
If the followers & supporters of the competition don't find this satisfactory , & don't want this situation to continue on in the manner in which it has in recent years , then the solution is
to change the rules of the competition to make it more equitable to the other clubs.
The points system has been an attempt at achieving this , but in it's present format has been unsuccessful, therefore other changes need to be made.
Of course the Uni supporters will argue that this is unfair to their club , & I agree.
However , the ultimate consideration should surely be , which is most important ,the viability of the other 11 clubs & consequently the survival of the Sydney competition in it's various forms , or the continued
dominance of Sydney Uni football club.
It's not simply about fairness to Uni , but dealing with the reality of the Sydney Rugby competition & it's member clubs.

 

[Spewn]

It just sucks as a competition to have one club with such depth. In a long season, injuries take their toll and Uni is the only club who can seriously go the distance. This is especially the case in colts 2 and 3. I personally enjoyed the contests between the other 5 teams in the finals. Much more exciting. And I also enjoyed watching Easts beat Uni twice regardless whether Uni was understrength. Good to see some of the arrogance deflated.

 

[lily]

Torn Hammy they didn't cheat this year. It was in 2009 against West Harbour when they deliberately flaunted the points rule in first grade colts. The thing that amazed me about that day was that they lost 4 competition points but for some reason kept their 4 try bonus point.

Done That your post was spot on. I wonder what crap will come back at you.

 

[Tahboy]

The reason Uni was caught cheating the points system was not because NSWRU caught them out it was because of a person from another club who knows backgrounds of colts players noticed the wrong points and took it up with his club who lodged the complaint.
The reason 4 points were deducted was because the rules were not updated when the bonus point system came into effect so they could only lose 4 points.
The big advantage Uni have over other clubs is when they need to go to there bench they can still bring on high level colts players where other club can only bring on 2nd grade colts level players and the gap widens even more if a club does not have a strong 2nd colts team such as what happened to Randwick when the semi final went into extra time.

 

[#1?]

Some one at the club tonight said that for 2012 anyone playing more than two games for Grade or Subbies Grade would be ruled out for Sydney Colts finals games in 2012.

This person is usually reliable with their rumours, but this one sounds "interesting". Can anyone verify or confirm this rumour?

 

[Knuckles]

Some one at the club tonight said that for 2012 anyone playing more than two games for Grade or Subbies Grade would be ruled out for Sydney Colts finals games in 2012.

This person is usually reliable with their rumours, but this one sounds "interesting". Can anyone verify or confirm this rumour?

This used to be the rule back in the 80s and 90s.....once a colts eligible player had played grade, that was it, he couldn't back. I cant see the clubs supporting that again though.
Even for the reason that when clubs play the perennial easybeats in colts, parra and penrith, some clubs use that round to give colts players an experience in grade that week. And there is nothing wrong with that policy in my opinion.

Maybe a rule they should consider bringing back though is the old two player transfer rule. This meant that a club could not recruit anymore than 2 players in the same year from an opposing club........and it applied to both grade and colts

 

[Keithy]

If the points system had remained the same from 2010 to 2011 then uni wouldn't have been able to field the squad they did. Uni was the only club who gained a benefit from the change in Colts. The people who were on the steering committee should be asked why the change?

 

[#1?]

Maybe a rule they should consider bringing back though is the old two player transfer rule. This meant that a club could not recruit anymore than 2 players in the same year from an opposing club........and it applied to both grade and colts

What happens when 4 or 5 good mates have the shits with their current club for whatever reason, and decide to move en masse to another club, perhaps even the "perennial easybeats" so they could get a gig at First Grade, rather than 3rds if they stayed at the old club. Under this rule it would take 2 years or more before the mates would be back together.

 

[Keithy]

West Harbour Colts 1 coaches are Geoff Threflo and Louise Ferris. Interesting to see how Louise goes!

 

[James Buchanan]

I'm curious, what did people think of West Harbour's front row this year?

 

[Slash]

If the points system had remained the same from 2010 to 2011 then uni wouldn't have been able to field the squad they did. Uni was the only club who gained a benefit from the change in Colts. The people who were on the steering committee should be asked why the change?

Wasn't the points cap reduced from 2010 to 2011?

 

[Slash]

I'm curious, what did people think of West Harbour's front row this year?

Loosehead and hooker were good.....

 

[James Buchanan]

Loosehead and hooker were good.....

I'm guessing you didn't rate the tighthead then?

 

[Keithy]

Yep but so was the categories for the players. Aust Schoolboys went from 10 points to 6 points. The schholboy points were only to be counted from last year and not the past 2 years. As an example Stirzaker would have been a 10 point player not a 2 point player (due to gap year in 2010) because he played Aust Schools in 2009. Ed Whylie would have be 5 points (10 - 5 discount) and Guy Millar would have been 10 points. This alone would have put Uni over the 40 point cap.

 

[waves]

Yep but so was the categories for the players. Aust Schoolboys went from 10 points to 6 points. The schholboy points were only to be counted from last year and not the past 2 years. As an example Stirzaker would have been a 10 point player not a 2 point player (due to gap year in 2010) because he played Aust Schools in 2009. Ed Whylie would have be 5 points (10 - 5 discount) and Guy Millar would have been 10 points. This alone would have put Uni over the 40 point cap.

I have heard otherwise that the points system is only implemented in 1st and 2nd grade colts not 3rd grade colts can someone confirm this ?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I could be wrong, but I'm not sure there are too many ex Aust Schoolboys or NSW I or II are rocking around in 3rds colts.

Points system would be slightly redundant.

 

[Knuckles]

I have heard otherwise that the points system is only implemented in 1st and 2nd grade colts not 3rd grade colts can someone confirm this ?

This is correct. Points cap only applied to 1st Grade, 2nd Grade, Colts 1 and Colts 2.