SuperRugby Waratahs V Crusaders, Rd 10 2012

[Schadenfreude]

TC needs to change his game. He has been measured and found wanting.

I'm skeptical, but if he's as good as many say, he may have the character to improve himself.

If anything was going to get through to him, tonight's lesson should.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Should have been a Tahs put in as I stated so in the shoutbox here, as the players weren't standing up a la maul...they were lying down, hence a ruck, and ball was unplayable so Tahs put in!

I think he called it a collapsed maul.

 

[cyclopath]

I think he called it a collapsed maul.

The tackled player was on the ground quickly, then several Crusader players dived off their feet on top, one from the Tahs side. It was a bizarre maul, if it ever was one.
Anyhoo...

 

[Schadenfreude]

I was feeding a small child, so I missed a lot.

I did notice a LOT of sealing off the ball that wasn't penalized.

 

[AngrySeahorse]

Reid was busted for not coming through the gate despite the fact that he had gone to ground with the tackler then let go of the player & got to his feet to get the ball. That's one penalty the Tahs should not have had. The Tahs scrum went down a few times with them hitting the turf 1st but were saved by Kaplan being on the other side & therefore not seeing it. I think its safe to say he made some bizarre calls for both sides. Tahs played well for mine but I never felt nervous at any point for the Saders watching that game.

 

[Brisbok]

Reid was busted for not coming through the gate despite the fact that he had gone to ground with the tackler then let go of the player & got to his feet to get the ball. That's one penalty the Tahs should not have had. The Tahs scrum went down a few times with them hitting the turf 1st but were saved by Kaplan being on the other side & therefore not seeing it. I think its safe to say he made some bizarre calls for both sides. Tahs played well for mine but I never felt nervous at any point for the Saders watching that game.

Reid was actually offiside earlier in that movement, before the tackle was made. He was a meter or so in front of the last feet before the ball was passed by McKibbon. The commentators got it completely wrong (as they usually do). When Reid mentioned to Kaplan that he was the tackler, Kaplan's response was "you were offside".

 

[Dam0]

Reid was actually offiside earlier in that movement, before the tackle was made. He was a meter or so in front of the last feet before the ball was passed by McKibbon. The commentators got it completely wrong (as they usually do). When Reid mentioned to Kaplan that he was the tackler, Kaplan's response was "you were offside".

I don't recall Kaplan calling that he was playing advantage immediately before the penalty. And if I recall correctly the penalty mark was given right at the spot of the ruck.

Your explanation does seem a little like a post facto justification.

 

[cyclopath]

I don't recall Kaplan calling that he was playing advantage immediately before the penalty. And if I recall correctly the penalty mark was given right at the spot of the ruck.

Your explanation does seem a little like a post facto justification.

Kaplan seemed adamant Read was offside, but I agree he wasn't "at the breakdown". Initially, I thought it was a call for before the tackle, but on the coverage, all the focus was on the playing of the ball after it, rightly or wrongly, so it seemed it was wrong. When he warned Read (personally) for 2 offside offences he mentioned "not getting back onside" which sounded more like he was talking about defensive line alignment, than the tackle, where they usually make the call about "not coming through the gate". Maybe Kaplan got a call from an AR? Maybe he just didn't say "advantage"? Who knows, it's Kaplan?

 

[Waylon]

Tahs.........so near but yet so far

 

[Brisbok]

I don't recall Kaplan calling that he was playing advantage immediately before the penalty. And if I recall correctly the penalty mark was given right at the spot of the ruck.

Your explanation does seem a little like a post facto justification.

I'm not trying to justify anything, I'm simply pointing out what I saw on the live coverage. From the previous ruck, Reid got his timing wrong and took a step or two forward before McKibbon pulled the ball out of the ruck. I immediately thought it was offside.

Watch a replay of that phase if you want, you will see that Reid is clearly a meter or so in front of the rest of the defensive line. I'm assuming, since Kaplan didn't call 'advantage', that it was a call from one of the AR's. That would also explain why the penalty was not taken from the mark. He's not going to call the AR onto the field to point out the exact mark is he? The actual position of the infringement was probably 5 to 10 meters to the right (Reid's right) of where Reid made the tackle.

Bit of a moot point really given that it did not have much effect on the game. I just remember shaking my head at the time at yet another example of Marto and Clarke getting it completely wrong.

 

[cyclopath]

Just watched the replay now - Kaplan got a call from the AR - who identified "number 8" and when he made the mark for the penalty he indicated the offside defensive line. AND, on replay, Read had not retired before coming in to make the tackle. When Read asked if he "made the tackle", Kaplan said "You were offside". The commentators completely got it wrong, and turned the focus on the contest for the ball, which was not why the penalty was given.

 

[Richo]

Was at the game and didn't get a replay of the last penalty, so I won't comment on that aspect of Kaplan's performance. What I did find odd was the lack of yellow card for joining the tackle from the side inside the 10m line. Three offenses in a row (across the halftime break) and a warning on the second and yet no penalty on the final offense. Maybe the reason was clearer on the tele?

 

[AngrySeahorse]

Reid was actually offiside earlier in that movement, before the tackle was made. He was a meter or so in front of the last feet before the ball was passed by McKibbon. The commentators got it completely wrong (as they usually do). When Reid mentioned to Kaplan that he was the tackler, Kaplan's response was "you were offside".

Fair enough if that's true. I can't remember that point in the game just the tackle. If there are any Tahs fans though that think Kaplan gave the Saders a leg up then they are living in one hell of a deluded universe.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Just watched the replay now - Kaplan got a call from the AR - who identified "number 8" and when he made the mark for the penalty he indicated the offside defensive line. AND, on replay, Read had not retired before coming in to make the tackle. When Read asked if he "made the tackle", Kaplan said "You were offside". The commentators completely got it wrong, and turned the focus on the contest for the ball, which was not why the penalty was given.

This decision might be supportable on another basis: it looks to me as if there is a second player in contact with the tackled player before Read grabs the ball and who was in contact before Read released the tackled player.
My understanding is that the refs "have to see daylight": i.e. no defender be he tackler or otherwise in contact with the tackled player in order for the tackler to be permitted to grab the ball without coming through the gate.
No doubt someone will set me straight if this is not correct - Read's very well put question (Eales like in its focus on the central issue) would suggest that I am wrong since he was not interested in whether anyone else had their hands on the tackled player.

whatever the laws - what Read did should be allowed because the tackled player had become isolated from his tah support and we need to encourage the sort of unpredictability that skill like this creates.

 

[cyclopath]

Fair enough if that's true. I can't remember that point in the game just the tackle. If there are any Tahs fans though that think Kaplan gave the Saders a leg up then they are living in one hell of a deluded universe.

Not at all. Historically, the Tahs win very few under his officiating. I don't like him as a ref, nor do I think he is usually very good.
In this game, the Tahs lost, fair and square.
There was a lot of hoo-haa on Twitter about that penalty being a leg-up to the Tahs, which I think, on review, was plain wrong (the hoo-haa, not the penalty). That was all.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Reid was busted for not coming through the gate despite the fact that he had gone to ground with the tackler then let go of the player & got to his feet to get the ball. That's one penalty the Tahs should not have had. The Tahs scrum went down a few times with them hitting the turf 1st but were saved by Kaplan being on the other side & therefore not seeing it. I think its safe to say he made some bizarre calls for both sides. Tahs played well for mine but I never felt nervous at any point for the Saders watching that game.

Angry, I have watched for years decades as NZ & SA scrums have mysteriously collapsed on our feed but never on theirs.
The laws of chance have kicked in we're in the middle of a streak that proves that this was just a random feature of the game. The streak will end on Friday night - I'm sure.

 

[spectator]

Not surprising to see the comments about TC. Have to say that Fruen was pretty awesome and would have made any number of people look ordinary. How long until he is an All Black?

 

[p.Tah]

Anyone else think that Fruean stood on the side line when he scored his second try?

 

[Gnostic]

UNder Kaplan I believe the score is now 20 losses 3 wins. INteresting, I wonder if what the Tahs ratio is under other Refs. When a ratio is so far outside the mean under other officials any reasonable person would think it requires assessment.

 

[Brisbok]

Not surprising to see the comments about TC. Have to say that Fruen was pretty awesome and would have made any number of people look ordinary. How long until he is an All Black?

Could be a while yet! The fact that SBW is no longer at the Crusaders will probably harm his chances because SBW and Kahui are developing a strong combination at the Chiefs! Furthermore, I'm sure Conrad Smith is also still very much in the picture. Fruen is probably still 3rd in line for that 13 jersey you'd have to think?

Edit - has SBW done enough to move ahead of Nonu this year? IMO he definitely has, but tough on Nonu to stand out in such a weak team I guess.