Super Rugby Round 4: Rebels v Shorks, Ballarat
- Thread starter Tex
- Start date
Ulrich
Nev Cottrell (35)
There are two assistant referees / touch judges who are also allowed to call forward. They all carry the blame. Fuck knows what it looked like for them to all miss it, but they don't have the overhead view we have.
I missed a bit of the game because I had to get ready to go watch the kid play U/11.
Anyway after reviewing at 0.5x playback just to triple check it is definitely forward. The AR on the touchline can be seen to check the pass as well. By that time Bosch must have moved for him not to rule on it, or they all reckon it was exactly lateral or something.
As for the grounding of the other try, that I don't think we can say for sure. Ref had the best view there in my opinion.
Other than that, I'm sick of this 'referee gone done the aussies in' bullshit. It's a ref panel, the assistants (at least one of them) had a perfectly good view and chance to call it and none of them did.
As for last week when the Reds got mauled into submission - pun intended, today it was shown once again by both teams that you can defend that.
Not a single maul try and both Sto and Jags tried it a couple of times.
The victim mentality helps you not. The Brumbies got sick, lost some players, had to travel and play the top Kiwi side but there was no victim mentality from them there.
Everyone makes mistakes, yes, even refs and, apparently, entire referee panels.
I missed a bit of the game because I had to get ready to go watch the kid play U/11.
Anyway after reviewing at 0.5x playback just to triple check it is definitely forward. The AR on the touchline can be seen to check the pass as well. By that time Bosch must have moved for him not to rule on it, or they all reckon it was exactly lateral or something.
As for the grounding of the other try, that I don't think we can say for sure. Ref had the best view there in my opinion.
Other than that, I'm sick of this 'referee gone done the aussies in' bullshit. It's a ref panel, the assistants (at least one of them) had a perfectly good view and chance to call it and none of them did.
As for last week when the Reds got mauled into submission - pun intended, today it was shown once again by both teams that you can defend that.
Not a single maul try and both Sto and Jags tried it a couple of times.
The victim mentality helps you not. The Brumbies got sick, lost some players, had to travel and play the top Kiwi side but there was no victim mentality from them there.
Everyone makes mistakes, yes, even refs and, apparently, entire referee panels.
B
Bobby Sands
Guest
Yes, South Africa is a fair and reasonable place which definitely doesn’t any any form for looking to assist their rugby teams. Sometimes the opposition team all gets good poisoning on the day of World Cup finals, it’s happens, don’t be a victim etc.
I agree wholly about defending mauls, but to suggest that rugby as a whole doesn’t have enormous issues with refereeing consistently is to avoid reality.
Is making excuses unbecoming? Absolutely.
But so too is playing games of rugby where only one team gets whistled.
For the record, Australian’s are just as one-eyed, biased and probably unfair. My cognitive biases probably block out the bulk of it, but I hear it in the commentary obviously.
But I think you seem reasonable enough to look at the statistics and the record in general if teams in SA to realise it’s a very difficult place to win.
I agree wholly about defending mauls, but to suggest that rugby as a whole doesn’t have enormous issues with refereeing consistently is to avoid reality.
Is making excuses unbecoming? Absolutely.
But so too is playing games of rugby where only one team gets whistled.
For the record, Australian’s are just as one-eyed, biased and probably unfair. My cognitive biases probably block out the bulk of it, but I hear it in the commentary obviously.
But I think you seem reasonable enough to look at the statistics and the record in general if teams in SA to realise it’s a very difficult place to win.
Ulrich
Nev Cottrell (35)
Well, I can only speak for 2017s statistics. Not completed 2018 and 2019 yet.
What I can say is Aussie refs penalised Aussie teams more in Australia than SA teams in the year 2017. How do you explain that?
Secondly, if one team is going to be forward-oriented and another flashy-whacky-backy - without the forward platform, who do you think is going to concede the most penalties? Australian forwards have been awful bar Reds and Brumbies, not this year only, for a good few years now.
The break-down specifically. You can lose the scrum and still rule the game.
Anyway, you are taking my example too far, as you well know. No 'Suzie' either, as you very well know as well.
Success breeds contempt among opposition I suppose.
1995 - 'Suzie'
2007 - 'Boks did not play the "good" teams' or 'Barnes fucked up'
2011 - 'Ref fucked the Boks'
2015 - 'Ref fucked Scotland bla bla'
2019 - 'Boks lost a game and got a lucky road home'
Simple example there that serves to show we are all biased and I can't trust your judgement any more than you can trust mine.
KevinO
Geoff Shaw (53)
Not drunk, can't be. Have to be ready to drive to hospital at any minute. Sleepy maybe, drunk nope.
Watch the pass before the forward pass, that's the one that really gives away how bad the call is. He received the ball flat footed not on the run, wound up to make the long pass and threw a forward pass cause he was standing still.
Watch the pass before the forward pass, that's the one that really gives away how bad the call is. He received the ball flat footed not on the run, wound up to make the long pass and threw a forward pass cause he was standing still.
Teh Other Dave
Alan Cameron (40)
Admin can we close down all of these Shiggins clone accounts please? TIA.
swingpass
Peter Sullivan (51)
aside from the disappointment at losing, (a result i was expecting) i had a nice day yesterday. Nice drive up with roof off, very good lunch before the game and got to sit with a new bunch of knowledgeable fellow Rebels supporters, all of whom shared the same thoughts. Refereeing issues aside, i have these comments. Wessels hit the nail on the head in the presser, the Rebels consistently lose the big moments in the game - the question is why ?
The coach must surely take some responsibility, but as said above the team lacks rugby smarts, eg why would you ever a call a throw to the back of the lineout with 30 secs to go to half time when you have just managed to escape being scored against. i thought Deegan did OK , but where was the second half game plan to use the gale behind them to play field position. i agreed with calling the scrum when the hooker was binned but they then allowed the Sharks to waste 2 mins resetting scrums, and then when the Sharks were down to 13 the Rebels kept it in close rather than going wide ! game management is still a problem for the team, not as bad as when Coleman was captain.
Didn't think the ref was too outrageous and i haven't watched the replay yet, so cant comment on the short of the line try. he did let both sides get away with a lot at the breakdown, going off feet, sealing off , etc. that seems to be common nowday. the constant scrum resets when players are in the bin are a blight on the game and refs should either stop the clock or penalise the offending team. the pass from Bosch looked forward at the ground, but we have all seen worse let go and fair ones called back, so thats what happens. My point being that in close games the ref "errors" account for much more in the result.
that said, the Sharks looked the better team, faster, more dynamic, more threatening all day; like the game against the Tahs, the Rebels pack looked ponderous for most of the day, and until the last 5 - 10 mins i dont recall a single first phase backline move. they have a lot to work on, i'm not certain they have the capacity to improve enough to be be more than just "competitive" in their remaining games.
The coach must surely take some responsibility, but as said above the team lacks rugby smarts, eg why would you ever a call a throw to the back of the lineout with 30 secs to go to half time when you have just managed to escape being scored against. i thought Deegan did OK , but where was the second half game plan to use the gale behind them to play field position. i agreed with calling the scrum when the hooker was binned but they then allowed the Sharks to waste 2 mins resetting scrums, and then when the Sharks were down to 13 the Rebels kept it in close rather than going wide ! game management is still a problem for the team, not as bad as when Coleman was captain.
Didn't think the ref was too outrageous and i haven't watched the replay yet, so cant comment on the short of the line try. he did let both sides get away with a lot at the breakdown, going off feet, sealing off , etc. that seems to be common nowday. the constant scrum resets when players are in the bin are a blight on the game and refs should either stop the clock or penalise the offending team. the pass from Bosch looked forward at the ground, but we have all seen worse let go and fair ones called back, so thats what happens. My point being that in close games the ref "errors" account for much more in the result.
that said, the Sharks looked the better team, faster, more dynamic, more threatening all day; like the game against the Tahs, the Rebels pack looked ponderous for most of the day, and until the last 5 - 10 mins i dont recall a single first phase backline move. they have a lot to work on, i'm not certain they have the capacity to improve enough to be be more than just "competitive" in their remaining games.
molman
Jim Lenehan (48)
You might not like the narrative, but the data looks pretty damning and seems to support the general sentiment, hence why the comments persist;
I remember seeing a similar analysis that seemed to point to a statistical bias towards NZ at the international level. Sometimes peoples general feelings are a very real reflection of trends. I think it's equally bullshit to not acknowledge how much the man in the middle influences the game when the margins and flow of the game are often so tight. I get sick of the retort of just play the ref out of the game. In a tight contest that is just a load of crap.
Like in this game I think usually the correct team wins but the oddities and inconsistency do start to leave a bad taste. I personally think transparency and clarity would go a long way to appeasing the situation. Like you said no one is perfect, but the proceeding cone of silence over some of the oddities in referee decisions is what I feel compounds the confusion, angst and continual criticism.
For this game I don't think the ref was too bad. Liked his overall communication and like you said it is a whole officiating team effort. TMO should have made the call on the forward pass clanger. Can't say I'd want their job.
Rebels need to play a lot smarter.
Ulrich
Nev Cottrell (35)
I hear you mate.
Just saying that perhaps, after I have finished gathering the results, it may look different.
Secondly, from 2017, Australian referees are just as mean as SA referees to Kiwi teams. Bias then? Yes, no, maybe? Is it okay to be biased towards one nation and not at all toward another?
For example, NZ referees handed even penalties during that season whereas Australian and SA referees gave more penalties against NZ counterparts. SA gave more against AUS as well, but AUS less against SA.
Seems too erratic to be pre-determined.
B
Bobby Sands
Guest
How do I explain that Australian refs don’t blow one sided games even when Australian teams are playing?
Well to put it delicately, I would say it’s a difference in culture.
Interestingly I thought the Saffa ref refereed The Bulls incredibly tough last night - so maybe this message is being heard and Saffas are aware of the optics.
Rebel man
John Thornett (49)
Look I agree there looked to be off a few times there but we seem to just panic in moments like that
molman
Jim Lenehan (48)
Don't think anyone is necessarily imply pre-determined because that would signal corruption. I'm just saying I don't think one can dismiss the fan and pundits criticism as out of hand or as just whinging. It's always going to be part of our game as long as they’re are humans out there interpreting things. I love the game as it is, worts and all
I agree. I thought it was one of those overcorrections. Only about a 140 or so extra penalties to square the ledger
I'd love the refs to do a panel at the beginning of the season outlining how they will be officiating. I just think they need to bring the fans more into the process so there is less confusion with adjustments of focus or interpretation. Clarifying some of the oddities would be nice too.
Like I said, no one is denying it is a hard job.
Ulrich
Nev Cottrell (35)
Depends what you consider one sided games mate.
I watched my kiddo play U/11 rugby yesterday. Sometimes the scrums were a real mess, but never was there a penalty awarded. Just something that's not easily given at that level at scrum time.
This right here was the most decent scrum of the lot.
So yes, culture probably plays a part in it.
Dismal Pillock
Michael Lynagh (62)
I may be a complete and utter stranger to the realm of common sense but these two sentences would seem to be orbiting in their own parallel universes located in the distant galaxy of WFT.
Ulrich
Nev Cottrell (35)
You are a stranger then pal.
