Super Rugby Rnd 2 2020 Lions v Reds @ Jo'burg - Sunday 12:05am AEDT

[Strewthcobber]

I don't reckon it's in the spirit or intent of the laws that players are going to be able to get out of the way of the ball carrier and then claim they were obstructed while trying to avoid creating a maul. And the IRB guidance confirms that.

Whoever came up with that move hasn't kept up with how that's been reffed for 5 years.

It's a terrible set move. Hopefully the players stuffed up something else.

 

[mst]

Thought the same when it happened, was screaming at the tv for an obstruction. No maul was formed and the ball carrier had two blockers bound to him and slightly in front of him . The “flying wedge” then bumped into ASY (Angus Scott-Young) on the way to the try line . The confusing issue was that the catcher in the lineout never completely let go of the ball , he and the #6 from the Lions both had hold of it when the ball was placed.

My first thoughts were obstruction and think a lot a refs would have ruled it that way, but the ball was never transferred to a player behind him.

Overall though a pretty high risk way to defend an attacking lineout .

It was a really odd strategy and even stranger decision on how the defend a potential maul that close to the line.

With the Laws clarification around mauls back in 2016 you will have noticed that the tactic of standing off the maul as a way of defending it now rare. The law was all about the how the ball was transferred and when.

Simply put if has to be brought down and then passed to the ripper to be passed back; if there is to be a maul. If it's a maul the ball must be transferred to the back, and the maul can't move until it's been transferred to the last player at the back of the maul.

The Lions did the first two steps and as the Reds did not contest thus it was not a maul (need 2x from each team to be a maul). As the jumper still has the ball in his hands even though the ripper also has his hands on the ball, the ball is technically at the front as the first player (front) has it (jumper). Thus no obstruction (player with the ball can be tackled unimpeded).

The added risk in this situation are significant. If ASY (Angus Scott-Young) or any Reds player makes contact with the Lions "wedge" on the side a referee may see that as a side entry in to a maul or illegal tackle etc, and as the stand off was planned they could deem such actions as intentional and cynical.

The irony of this is laws were changed to provide the defending better opportunity to tackle the ball carrier and defend a maul.

 

[liquor box]

Frustrating game to lose. I find it strange that Tupou continues to be a penalty magnet under Thorn, I would have thought Thorn was one of those old school coaches with no time for silly stuff. Hopefully Petaia kicks on in the next few matches, quiet start to the season.

I have always thought the opposite, I have always thought he would fire up his players to go out and hit as hard as they can and as often as they can to the point where a young player loses control from time to time.

He has previously made comments about decisions being soft so I assumed he liked a bit of mongrel

 

[Bobby Sands]

Just watched it then. Few notes:

-Lukhan looks so much better at lock.
-Stewart was immense at 12, and absolutely cannot be dropped based on that game.
-Jordy did some tough stuff ie carries off the lineout into traffic, inside balls etc. He is building into the season.
-Wilson was good again, little untidy at the back of the scrum. How did he not score that try?
-JP was incredible. Such a leader, maybe the best game I've see from him.
-Rodda gave Wilson and Tupou the biggest rocket I've seen in a while in the first half for not engaging in the maul defense. Something like "get the f&*k in there boys for f&*ks sake!"
-The straight "hands" backline move where Stewart went through the gap was lovely and very unlucky not to score a try from it.
-Our scrum is incredible.
-Dan Kriel is a very good player on both sides of the ball.
-Paisami is in incredible form. Probably needs to start.
-Sorovi is one of the worst Qld Reds ever. Incompetent.
-The backs had ample opportunity to win that game, but did not execute.
-Dissapointing, but at the same time reasonably promising. Good scrum, lineout, ruck play, defense. Poor backline cohesion.

 

[streetguy]

Let’s be honest ...the overall standard of play was deplorable .

Nice “effort” defensively and something here and there that resembles desire but in terms of basic skill - catch / pass / kick and basic structures ...they looked like a bunch of half cut bums down the park. And it’s not just this game , nor this team. The overall quality of ability / skill , the quality of the operational element that sits in behind , and is responsible for that - within all Australian Teams not named the Brumbies is flat out shit . Crowd numbers and anaemic TV ratings tell the story.

The “product” isn’t working

I tend to agree Reds/Lions game yesterday was dogshite

Lions are worst team in SA Conf & coming off a mauling vs Jaguares Reds had extra 24 hrs to prepare Yet they continully shit the bed & lose close game; playing small in big moments is pathetic AUS team outside Brumbies are largely crap Tahs & Rebels are soft up front & Reds have little attacking cohesion & resilience

 

[Sully]

On Lukan, does he look big again? To me he looks 5-10 kgs heavier.

 

[Adam84]

Biggest issue for me was game control, field position and kicking.

It was lacking across all those areas for the Reds, if they didn’t have a tight 5 who can scrum and catch a ball at the lineout they would be in real trouble.

Reds aren’t going to win games playing out of their own half

 

[Wilson]

On Lukan, does he look big again? To me he looks 5-10 kgs heavier.

Yeah, looking really properly solid. Seems to have made the most of his off season and at 23 he's probably still settling into his body a bit. easy to forget he and some of the others are still so young as the senior members of the side.

 

[dru]

I had no problem with Jaco. The boys need to hold destiny in their own hands and they are getting there.

 

[Ulrich]

Embarrassing really from Jaco Peyper.

I agree a good team must play beyond the referee's influence, but he certainly gives SA a bad name with that kind of performance.

To me there was not much 'Super' about the rugby played in that game. It looked like Varsity Cup level stuff. There's certainly a lack of test-match equivalent intensity for the most part across the games so far with the exception of one or two games.

 

[Finsbury Girl]

My internet was finally restored so I could watch the game.

1) losing the game was our own fault, we had ample opportunity
2) Stewart as expected bloody great
3) did these blokes not practice kicking at altitude? Defensive kicking esp JOC (James O'Connor) really let us down
4) Jock Campbell again proved doubters wrong
5) Effort. cannot fault the boys 13 v 15 they done good
6) Jordan needs to inject himself more
7) ASY (Angus Scott-Young) continues to do the friggin hard yakka
8) Tate still best halfback in Aus but needs to back himself more
9) Not convinced JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 at times ponderous, love to see Lucas Stewart 10 12

Now finally the elephant in the room. I'm sorry but that refereeing from Jaco was one of the worst displays I have seen for a long time. Seriously if was nothing short of a fucking disgrace.

I'm gutted none from two. I hope this game is an aberration. We NEED to win desperately in Argentina.

 

[Ulrich]

I'm gutted none from two. I hope this game is an aberration. We NEED to win desperately in Argentina.

Unfortunately the Hurricanes did you no favours there. Jaguares will be desperate to remain in contention for the SA conference given they travel after the Reds game.

 

[dru]

Unfortunately the Hurricanes did you no favours there. Jaguares will be desperate to remain in contention for the SA conference given they travel after the Reds game.

Yeah. I thought Lions away was a target game, much less so Jaguares.

 

[streetguy]

Unfortunately the Hurricanes did you no favours there. Jaguares will be desperate to remain in contention for the SA conference given they travel after the Reds game.

Jaguares threw game away in last 10 mins They had a 11 point lead

Reds couldn't beat worst SA team coming from getting wiped out in Buenos Aires week beforehand

Reds are likely to get smoked by 20 points if Jaguares come put firing
Reds are king of losing bonus points Always play small in big moments

 

[dru]

Jaguares threw game away in last 10 mins They had a 11 point lead

Reds couldn't beat worst SA team coming from getting wiped out in Buenos Aires week beforehand

Reds are likely to get smoked by 20 points if Jaguares come put firing
Reds are king of losing bonus points Always play small in big moments

Minor point but I suspect that Lions are not as dire as the Bulls (yet to score a try).

 

[Ulrich]

Minor point but I suspect that Lions are not as dire as the Bulls (yet to score a try).

Bulls will surprise many. Bulls at home 20 points better than Lions.

Refs after Stormers v Bulls said it is the most physical encounter they had ever seen. Score and game was shit perhaps but there was certainly no lack of intensity there.

 

[dru]

Bulls will surprise many. Bulls at home 20 points better than Lions.

Refs after Stormers v Bulls said it is the most physical encounter they had ever seen. Score and game was shit perhaps but there was certainly no lack of intensity there.

Ulrich I've seen your thoughts re the Bulls a couple of times. Mate to be honest it would be surprise (th0ugh stranger things have happened). However you look at it though they are not being rated well by the pundits in 2020. Wish it weren't so, but there it is.

 

[Ulrich]

Ulrich I've seen your thoughts re the Bulls a couple of times. Mate to be honest it would be surprise (th0ugh stranger things have happened). However you look at it though they are not being rated well by the pundits in 2020. Wish it weren't so, but there it is.

They are not 2019 Bulls, but given their losses they are not far from it either. Keep that in mind and then take a little momentum with it. The Bulls are not as shite as they appear, trust me.

They rolled the Stormers scrum regularly enough. Keep in mind they have Gqoboka and Nyakane in the front row still. Their hooker had some bad discipline but he caused havoc for the Stormers on several fronts and he is young.

They certainly will not take a step back physically.

 

[streetguy]

Minor point but I suspect that Lions are not as dire as the Bulls (yet to score a try).

Bulls have a better pack than Lions I expect Bulls to beat Lions home & away this season
Bulls have played 2 games on road vs Stormers - top 4 in Comp atm & Sharks top 6 team

 

[streetguy]

They are not 2019 Bulls, but given their losses they are not far from it either. Keep that in mind and then take a little momentum with it. The Bulls are not as shite as they appear, trust me.

They rolled the Stormers scrum regularly enough. Keep in mind they have Gqoboka and Nyakane in the front row still. Their hooker had some bad discipline but he caused havoc for the Stormers on several fronts and he is young.

They certainly will not take a step back physically.

Yep Bulls front row is bloody good - 2 Bok props as you mentioned & pack overall competed well against Stormers who have best pack in Super Rugby

Bulls problem is their halfbacks