Super Rugby Rd 1: Waratahs vs Brumbies Friday, 24th February

[Brumby Runner]

I know it's been commented on, but I will say I thought Schoup, who had a great debut, did carry on like a knob. Will be interested to see if he's as big a hero against a 30 year old prop with 50 test under is belt, rather than a 22 year old kid still carrying babyfat with half a Super rugby season as experience.

How old is Schoupp? He has, what, 4 - 5 years Shute Shield, and is a bit undersized for a LHP at 1.8m and 110kg. I reckon in terms of experience, Holz (23yo, 1,89m and 128kg) probably has more and at a higher level. Given it was his first game at this level, and apparently had been overlokked (ignored) by the Tahs, it is quite understandable that he would be fired up for this clash. I hope he keeps the fire in the belly for as long as he continues to play.

EDIT : By the way, Holz had a year in the Brumbies setup, including some game time, before a year with the Tahs. Much more than half a season.

 

[Viking]

He also doesn’t have any footwork into contact. Still tries to rampage over others like he would have at schoolboy level.

The best running forwards have footwork into contact to get over the ad line.

This quote is what Dave Rennie had recorded and sent to Wilson.

 

[Maulalltheway]

Wright, really?

For me Valetini, Lonergan, Toole for the Brumbies.
Holz was interesting, Gamble, Edmed, Jorgensen for the Tahs.

edmed was a passenger defensively all game

 

[Brumby Runner]

I don't see a great difference in backrow spots, Gamble plays 8 in the style of Samu/Savea ('ish), it can work

Donaldson is OK, Edmed is Ok - neither excite me,

My bigger concern was the lack of brain cells in the game plan, pass the ball, sure, but not to someone in a worse position ffs

I don't think Samu is a good comparison, or maybe he is the best? Valetini is our world class No 8, but for some unknown (to me) reason, he plays 6 at the Brumbies. It does matter. Rob was slow to cover a couple of blind side attacks which as a 6 he should have been there in position. Pete has more pace off the mark and can cover more ground in a short space of time than Rob. He is more comfortable at 6 and ought to be playing there. In attack, Rob played as he always does at the Wallabies. He was the go to battering ram getting over the gain line and often through the first line of defence. He plays the 8 role and ought to be picked in that spot.

It might be said that Pete is picked at 8 for his ability to control the back of the scrum, but that ignores the fact that Rob performs that job as well as anyone for the Wallabies. Numbers on the back doo matter when they affect the team pattern of play. The Brumbies would actually be more effective with Samu defending and attacking in the blind side channel in the 6 spot, while Rob would be in his perfect spot out a bit wider in the 8 jersey.

In similar vein, I don't think Gamble is an 8, and I don't think he should be picked there at the expense of Langi Gleeson. Some day, someone might do a thesis on the affects of second best No 7s being forced to play at 6 or 8 because of one other player with a mortgage on the 7 jumper.

 

[Marce]

It might be said that Pete is picked at 8 for his ability to control the back of the scrum, but that ignores the fact that Rob performs that job as well as anyone for the Wallabies. Numbers on the back doo matter when they affect the team pattern of play. The Brumbies would actually be more effective with Samu defending and attacking in the blind side channel in the 6 spot, while Rob would be in his perfect spot out a bit wider in the 8 jersey.

In similar vein, I don't think Gamble is an 8, and I don't think he should be picked there at the expense of Langi Gleeson. Some day, someone might do a thesis on the affects of second best No 7s being forced to play at 6 or 8 because of one other player with a mortgage on the 7 jumper.

Ok, Rob should play at 8 in Brumbies and Gamble should play at 7 in Tahs but who is the player with a mortgage on the 7 Brumbies jersey?

 

[fatprop]

I don't think Samu is a good comparison, or maybe he is the best? Valetini is our world class No 8, but for some unknown (to me) reason, he plays 6 at the Brumbies. It does matter. Rob was slow to cover a couple of blind side attacks which as a 6 he should have been there in position. Pete has more pace off the mark and can cover more ground in a short space of time than Rob. He is more comfortable at 6 and ought to be playing there. In attack, Rob played as he always does at the Wallabies. He was the go to battering ram getting over the gain line and often through the first line of defence. He plays the 8 role and ought to be picked in that spot.

It might be said that Pete is picked at 8 for his ability to control the back of the scrum, but that ignores the fact that Rob performs that job as well as anyone for the Wallabies. Numbers on the back doo matter when they affect the team pattern of play. The Brumbies would actually be more effective with Samu defending and attacking in the blind side channel in the 6 spot, while Rob would be in his perfect spot out a bit wider in the 8 jersey.

In similar vein, I don't think Gamble is an 8, and I don't think he should be picked there at the expense of Langi Gleeson. Some day, someone might do a thesis on the affects of second best No 7s being forced to play at 6 or 8 because of one other player with a mortgage on the 7 jumper.

My point was there are different ways to play 8

 

[stillmissit]

I am not sure Donaldson is our "best 10", I just haven't seen enough quality work from him that has me understanding the hype

I was wondering about the Gamble/Hooper/Swinton decision - the "hope", I think, was that Bell and Swinton would be the "running" forwards who would then be swapped out by Gleeson & Harris

But Bell got wounded and Swinton was ineffectual/easily targeted by himself

The best moment from Jorgenson, for me, was a moment where he was beaten in defence and got up, chased hard to make a tackle in the same phase

I think Harrison is the Tahs best 10 and I'd like to see him behind a decent tahs pack (not last Friday's).

 

[upthereds#!]

How old is Schoupp? He has, what, 4 - 5 years Shute Shield, and is a bit undersized for a LHP at 1.8m and 110kg. I reckon in terms of experience, Holz (23yo, 1,89m and 128kg) probably has more and at a higher level. Given it was his first game at this level, and apparently had been overlokked (ignored) by the Tahs, it is quite understandable that he would be fired up for this clash. I hope he keeps the fire in the belly for as long as he continues to play.

I remember some of the french props from a while back- quite small but super strong LHPs. Nicolas Mas and Thomas Domingo. Both 'Small' but almost ripped. 108kg balls of scrum pig muscle, both 180cm or less. low centre of gravity so not super easy to get down. Schoupp looked like a little agro scrum pig. Like Robertson should be, but isn't.

 

[Braveheart81]

The most disappointing aspect of this for the Tahs were that the tries conceded were largely through poor errors.

The first try was just slowness to re-align by Seu leaving a big gap for Wright to run through.
We then scored a try and then penalty goal but our inability to secure the kickoff cost us three points through initially losing possession but then giving away a scrum penalty on our own feed after the Brumbies dropped the ball.
Then the Brumbies scored with the Lonergan kick wide to Muirhead. The Tahs should have been more switched on but this was clever heads up play from Lonergan and Muirhead.
We got very lucky that Toole got called in touch by the TMO. That was shocking defence by Perese on the cover. He had Toole well covered. There was penalty advantage here so it cost us three points anyway.
Another three points conceded through a Jake Gordon penalty which was pretty dumb made it 21-10.
The next try by Toole was due to the Tahs re-aligning too slowly and Foketi getting run around by Muirhead who then offloaded to Toole.

There were several periods of the match where it felt like the Tahs had really got some momentum and could be in a position to take control of the game but it was always when behind on the scoreboard. The Brumbies are too good a team to be trying to essentially play from behind through the whole match.

Maybe if we hadn't given up so many easy points then one of the tries the Tahs scored would have been to take the lead and then that momentum could have carried us further in front and we could have taken control of the game.

 

[Brumby Runner]

My point was there are different ways to play 8

I agree. but at the Brumbies, Valetini still plays the classic 8 role hitting the ball up off set play while he had to defend the blind side off scrums (because that was where he was positioned). But he didn't do that as effectively as Pete Samu does usually, but of course Pete was somewhere else pretending to be an 8. The classic roles are different and for ever have demanded different types of players in the 6 and 8 jerseys.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Brumbies would be even more effective and more threatening if Rob reverted to 8 and played there like he does for the Wallabies, and Pete took over the 6 role at least until Tom Hooper returns and then Pete would be in the frame for the 7 spot. Just play them all in the roles they are best suited to.

 

[Tomikin]

I know it's been commented on, but I will say I thought Schoup, who had a great debut, did carry on like a knob. Will be interested to see if he's as big a hero against a 30 year old prop with 50 test under is belt, rather than a 22 year old kid still carrying babyfat with half a Super rugby season as experience.

If he pastes him into the ground I'm sure he will...

 

[Running_rugby_1954]

I agree. but at the Brumbies, Valetini still plays the classic 8 role hitting the ball up off set play while he had to defend the blind side off scrums (because that was where he was positioned). But he didn't do that as effectively as Pete Samu does usually, but of course Pete was somewhere else pretending to be an 8. The classic roles are different and for ever have demanded different types of players in the 6 and 8 jerseys.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Brumbies would be even more effective and more threatening if Rob reverted to 8 and played there like he does for the Wallabies, and Pete took over the 6 role at least until Tom Hooper returns and then Pete would be in the frame for the 7 spot. Just play them all in the roles they are best suited to.

They are just numbers on the jersey.

Players can still play the role the team needs them to in any jersey. Whether he was wearing 6 or 8 Valetini would carry the ball in the middle of the field from lineouts, the same applies for Samu sticking to the edge. The number does not have the level of meaning some people think it does.

 

[Running_rugby_1954]

This quote is what Dave Rennie had recorded and sent to Wilson.

I would take Wilson over Swinton any day of the week- still some stuff to work on - but such an asset to a backrow with his Carries, offloads and work rate.

 

[Running_rugby_1954]

They are just numbers on the jersey.

Players can still play the role the team needs them to in any jersey. Whether he was wearing 6 or 8 Valetini would carry the ball in the middle of the field from lineouts, the same applies for Samu sticking to the edge. The number does not have the level of meaning some people think it does.

Another example.

Gamble.
Played with 7 on his back last year, 8 last Friday.
Played exactly the same he always has for the tahs(with a bit of rust).

 

[Slim 293]

I would take Wilson over Swinton any day of the week- still some stuff to work on - but such an asset to a backrow with his Carries, offloads and work rate.

I’m certainly a bigger fan of the former, but even I have to admit Swinton has performed better in gold, albeit they largely offer different skill sets…

But Wilson’s ball carrying hasn’t really yet carried over into test rugby.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Wilson has a tremendous workrate but his carries even at Super Rugby level are overrated imo.

 

[Running_rugby_1954]

Wilson has a tremendous workrate but his carries even at Super Rugby level are overrated imo.

What is he missing?

 

[HogansHeros]

What is he missing?

A brumbies jersey maybe?

 

[Slim 293]

A brumbies jersey maybe?

It's not a bad idea - he might gain some improvement...

 

[KiwiM]

What is he missing?

Footwork. Wison is lacking footwork in his ball carrying - so he becomes an easy target.