Super Rugby AU Round 8 - Brumbies vs Waratahs @ Canberra Stadium - Saturday 22 August @ 7.15pm

[Dan54]

Harrison is 100 x the player Donaldson is, and always has been. Tahs could do no worse than to replace Harrison now.

On tonight's match, Nic White gave a master class of No 9 play when he came on. Brilliant as Tate was and is, Nic needs to be the Wallaby No 9 for his experience and cool head. Tate to learn from him and come on with 15 to 20 to go.

Agree with both points so much BR, don't replace a young fella with another just because he didn't look that good behind a beaten up pack, unless of course you want to really blow his confidence.
And with White, I reckon him to start for Wallabies and bring Tate off bench is exactly how Tate will end up a very good international 9, let's bring him into test rugby at a good pace.

 

[dru]

On tonight's match, Nic White gave a master class of No 9 play when he came on. Brilliant as Tate was and is, Nic needs to be the Wallaby No 9 for his experience and cool head. Tate to learn from him and come on with 15 to 20 to go.

I'd agree that White needs to be in the 23 but I'm not ready to concede 9 yet. Tate is playing seriously well and I havent seen anything that suggests White can snipe or defend like Tate.

White offers better/quicker passing from the ruck and stands out as a serious competitor, something that probably can't be trained.

The options are great, let's see White over 80 against better opposition.

 

[KOB1987]

against better opposition.

Oi !!

 

[Wilson]

didn't notice him till the 50th minute.

It was definitely focused on his second half performance. I had him toiling away doing the dirty work in the first half and doing nothing wrong. I did probably give him a bit more credit then was due for spoiling Dempsey's try early on, it looks like it was more of an unforced error on second viewing. He really exploded out of the gates right from the start of the 2nd half though - his first try was at 45 minutes, and he was a big part of the Brumbies taking the game away from the tahs. Did some good lineout work throughout as well - including a steal for the possession that lead to Lonergan's try, which really stamps his point of difference to the other two.

 

[dru]

Oi !!

I don't think I actually said this - thought I may have quoted someone who did. I don't see the need as a Reds fan to make that comparison between Force and Tahs, though I do have heaps of good will for the Force.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I'd agree that White needs to be in the 23 but I'm not ready to concede 9 yet. Tate is playing seriously well and I havent seen anything that suggests White can snipe or defend like Tate.

White offers better/quicker passing from the ruck and stands out as a serious competitor, something that probably can't be trained.

The options are great, let's see White over 80 against better opposition.

Tate off the bench with his running game against tiring players still sounds better option. White would still be front runner for 9 at this point.

 

[dru]

Tate off the bench with his running game against tiring players still sounds better option. White would still be front runner for 9 at this point.

Yes this seems to be the narrative. I still want 80 mins from him. I mean Tate's game in the core 9n duties is good to outstanding and he has all these other strengths. White already showed his devolution to the box kick to settle things - if he does that (again) for the WBs I'll be throwing things at the TV.

 

[Up the Guts]

Looking back on the game, Hunt's absence was massive for the Tahs. They really lacked someone to straighten it up in attack and an older head to control the play.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Yes this seems to be the narrative. I still want 80 mins from him. I mean Tate's game in the core 9n duties is good to outstanding and he has all these other strengths. White already showed his devolution to the box kick to settle things - if he does that (again) for the WBs I'll be throwing things at the TV.

Dru, and do you mean to say that Tate doesn't box kick? Also, if Nic plays 80 minutes, when does Tate get on?

 

[Uh huh]

I'd agree that White needs to be in the 23 but I'm not ready to concede 9 yet. Tate is playing seriously well and I havent seen anything that suggests White can snipe or defend like Tate.

White offers better/quicker passing from the ruck and stands out as a serious competitor, something that probably can't be trained.

The options are great, let's see White over 80 against better opposition.

In fairness to White, he did snipe his way to a victory over the All Blacks.

I agree, however, that Tate should be first choice 9 for the Wallabies.

 

[dru]

In fairness to White, he did snipe his way to a victory over the All Blacks.

I agree, however, that Tate should be first choice 9 for the Wallabies.

We are talking about form though U-h

 

[Derpus]

Id prefer Tate's sniping at the tail end against a tiring defence ans White's game control to begin.

 

[mst]

My guess UTG is that having called it into question he wasn't then willing to go against the TMO's call.

I agree, it was offside. Could have had an impact of the rest of the game but at 12-11 at half time, the Tahs were still in it had they been good enough.

It would have been interesting to see what the TMO called if they actually had reviewed it. IMHO I don't think it was as clear cut as many think. Noting the TMO was actually applying the laws as they are written; must have clear and obvious evidence, like the other calls on the night this is a hard one based on they vision they had (I believe).

Below is one step after Ryan turns after retreating (best screen grab I can get). He was tracking back after playing the ball so Kuenzle can put him onside as he follows through post kick. It was very marginal and could have been very hard to show it was clear and obvious offside.

Interestingly, what would have added to the TMO considerations was just after the kick, a Tahs player (6) makes contact with Kuenzle arresting his forward progress towards the line. Note the angle and line of the Tahs player and method / point of contact.

 

[Up the Guts]

It would have been interesting to see what the TMO called if they actually had reviewed it. IMHO I don't think it was as clear cut as many think. Noting the TMO was actually applying the laws as they are written; must have clear and obvious evidence, like the other calls on the night this is a hard one based on they vision they had (I believe).

Below is one step after Ryan turns after retreating (best screen grab I can get). He was tracking back after playing the ball so Kuenzle can put him onside as he follows through post kick. It was very marginal and could have been very hard to show it was clear and obvious offside.

Interestingly, what would have added to the TMO considerations was just after the kick, a Tahs player (6) makes contact with Kuenzle arresting his forward progress towards the line. Note the angle and line of the Tahs player and method / point of contact.

View attachment 11752

Kuenzle has already kicked the ball in that screenshot. He never gets in front of Lonergan to put him onside, penalty all day.

 

[mst]

Agree with both points so much BR, don't replace a young fella with another just because he didn't look that good behind a beaten up pack, unless of course you want to really blow his confidence.
And with White, I reckon him to start for Wallabies and bring Tate off bench is exactly how Tate will end up a very good international 9, let's bring him into test rugby at a good pace.

I don't think Tate is in the mix TBH. In time maybe; makes too many mistakes and can struggle with game control. Part of reason I believe Thorn has him coming off the bench lately. This week he was great, last week his lack of vision and poor decisions really hurt the Reds. Give him time, worth having him in the squad though.

 

[mst]

Kuenzle has already kicked the ball in that screenshot. He never gets in front of Lonergan to put him onside, penalty all day.

As per my post:

Below is one step after Ryan turns after retreating (best screen grab I can get)........

 

[Up the Guts]

Below is one step after Ryan turns after retreating (best screen grab I can get)..

He never retreats, he follows his pass and moves forward toward the ball when in an offside position. It’s a penalty.

 

[Up the Guts]

I don't think Tate is in the mix TBH. In time maybe; makes too many mistakes and can struggle with game control. Part of reason I believe Thorn has him coming off the bench lately. This week he was great, last week his lack of vision and poor decisions really hurt the Reds. Give him time, worth having him in the squad though.

Last week Tate was the starting 9 in the team of the week after his performance against the Rebels. I don’t remember the lack of vision and poor decisions hurting the Reds.

 

[mst]

He never retreats, he follows his pass and moves forward toward the ball when in an offside position. It’s a penalty.

Bit better picture . Note where Angus is which may explain why he did not consider the offside straight away.

 

[TSR]

With regards to both the offside & McDermott MST, I think you are choosing the see what you want to believe.