Super Rugby Au Round 7 - Reds v Rebels @ Suncorp Stadium, 7:15pm Sat 15 Aug

[TSR]

If he doesn’t get the nod it’ll be because they are picking Nasirani on form/experience.

The two young 10s aren’t ready - that shows in their play (not to mention Lolesio is injured).

Wilson has shown no sign he isn’t physically and mentally ready to step up.

 

[Slim 293]

According to the fabled statistics.. Valetini is fairly average, especially in defence for missed tackles and ineffective tackles.

Genuine question, by what metric is Valetini better than Naisrani, Wilson, Swintin, Samu or Dempsey for the No 6 position?

Fairly average compared to whom now?

Depending on which stats you go by he reads better than most of them on some things, but not others.

I would also take into consideration he has a much higher workrate than some of those guys (eg. averages more tackles per match than most, hits more rucks with dominant clearouts), and plays a different, much tighter game than the likes of say Samu or Wilson, and yet ranks high in terms of metres per carry and tackle busts.

 

[Braveheart81]

and plays a different, much tighter game

This is going to be a key consideration when we pick the 6 and 8 particularly when we consider guys currently playing 8 as options at 6.

They're going to be asked to do a different role than what they play for their Super Rugby team. This is probably the reason I'd be most hesitant about picking both Naisarani and Wilson together (not that I wouldn't do it). One of them would need to be in the lineout a lot more than they currently are and one would be used in a different segment of the field for their carries etc.

Dempsey strikes me as the number 8 most suited to 6 because I think it's his best position and he's very good in the lineout. Certain aspects of his game are well behind Wilson and Naisarani's 2020 form though.

Valetini is actually playing 6 so has an advantage there.

 

[Slim 293]

Funnily enough, the two best lineout jumpers in the group are the shortest - Dempsey and Samu.........

I think Samu's lack of consistency this year could see him miss out, and if Dempsey keeps up his run of form should take his spot........ or rather, hang onto his spot in the squad.

 

[Up the Guts]

Wilson has shown no sign he isn’t physically and mentally ready to step up.

There’s a clip of Wilson in the Brumbies vs Reds game defending in the hooker channel and he asks Faiingaa ‘who are you going to throw it to?’ and Harry then proceeds to pick exactly the right jumper and the Reds get the steal. He’s a great competitor and won’t shy away against the darkness.

 

[Derpus]

There’s a clip of Wilson in the Brumbies vs Reds game defending in the hooker channel and he asks Faiingaa ‘who are you going to throw it to?’ and Harry then proceeds to pick exactly the right jumper and the Reds get the steal. He’s a great competitor and won’t shy away against the darkness.

I remember seeing that live. He literally shouted out the name of the target before the throw. Was hilarious.

Reminds me of my mate who always asks me what corner im aiming for when taking a penalty in Fifa.

 

[Slim 293]

I remember seeing that live. He literally shouted out the name of the target before the throw. Was hilarious.

Yep........ I was screaming at the screen "Don't throw it there! Don't throw it there! Fuuuuuuuuuuuuck."

 

[Adam84]

Wilson was an absolute pest during the JWC as well, has no hesitation in engaging the opposition and heckling them. Which is ok, as long as you can back it up and don't act like a dickhead.

 

[Adam84]

Fairly average compared to whom now?

compared to those you said Valetini was better then....
There is nothing in same statistics you referred to earlier that indicate that Valetini Is clearly ahead of any of those players.

 

[Slim 293]

compared to those you said Valetini was better then..
There is nothing in same statistics you referred to earlier that indicate that Valetini Is clearly ahead of any of those players.

Well, there were.......... off the top of my head average tackles made per match and tackle busts to start.

But it seems there's a constant shifting of the goal posts here........

 

[TSR]

Doesn't fit the narrative Slim.

Rubbish - most posters on here acknowledge how good Nasirani has been, including the fans of Wilson. Suggesting that there is a ‘narrative’ out there that is unfairly diminishing Nasirani or talking up Wilson is wrong.

 

[Adam84]

Well, there were.... off the top of my head average tackles made per match and tackle busts to start.

But it seems there's a constant shifting of the goal posts here....

But, he doesn’t...

In defence Valetini makes less tackles then Swinton, Scott-Young and Naisarni, and even misses more tackles then Swinton, Scott-Young, Naisarani, Samu or Wilson.

In attack, Valetini has less involvements in both runs and passes then Wilson, Naisarani, Swinton or Dempsey. Makes less pick and drives then Wilson, Naisarani or Dempsey. Even in tackle busts he averages less then Naisarni and is on par with Samu and Swinton.

Like I said, nothing in the stats you referred suggest that Valetini is clearly ahead of those players, according to the stats he doesn’t stand out all, and has comparatively lower work rate and poor defence. I don’t dislike Valetini, I’m just trying to understand what makes him an automatic selection.

If anyone sticks out, its Swinton...

 

[qwerty51]

I don't get the Valetini love either, seems to mainly Brumbies fans promoting him. He's been good, he's young and I like that he plays tight but nothing is screaming out to me to suggest he's ahead of the other 6s and 8s.

 

[Dan54]

Rubbish - most posters on here acknowledge how good Nasirani has been, including the fans of Wilson. Suggesting that there is a ‘narrative’ out there that is unfairly diminishing Nasirani or talking up Wilson is wrong.

I like both players, think Naisarani is probably better with ball in hand, but gives me impression he a bit lazy on defence, Wilson's strength is he works so bloody hard on defence.

 

[TSR]

Gee - I dunno Dan. One of the things I love about Nasirani is how hard he works all the time. I haven’t noticed him being lazy in defence. Maybe I just haven’t noticed, but I don’t think his stats show that up (not that stats tell the full story, but etc etc)

For me Nasirani is more the grafter if the two - and I don’t say that in a bad way. Both make of them of runs and both run in the middle third in the traffic but Nasirani seems a bit more bread and butter. Wilson in the other hand runs excellent lines and is excellent at positioning himself in support. How often do you see him as the first support player to a half break, running a great support line from depth. I think Wilson’s game would transition well into the wider channels if he was played at 6. The other option which I think is very possible is both Wilson & Nasirani play more in the centre and Salakaia-Loto is positioned in the wide channel in attack. I get the criticism of Salakaia-Loto playing wide in defence, but he is excellent there in attack.

 

[Slim 293]

But, he doesn’t.

In defence Valetini makes less tackles then Swinton, Scott-Young and Naisarni, and even misses more tackles then Swinton, Scott-Young, Naisarani, Samu or Wilson.

In attack, Valetini has less involvements in both runs and passes then Wilson, Naisarani, Swinton or Dempsey. Makes less pick and drives then Wilson, Naisarani or Dempsey. Even in tackle busts he averages less then Naisarni and is on par with Samu and Swinton.

Like I said, nothing in the stats you referred suggest that Valetini is clearly ahead of those players, according to the stats he doesn’t stand out all, and has comparatively lower work rate and poor defence. I don’t dislike Valetini, I’m just trying to understand what makes him an automatic selection.

If anyone sticks out, its Swinton.

It seems you’re cherry picking which stats and which players to compare to to support your argument, and doesn’t actually refute anything I’ve already said......... time to rule 10 this one.

 

[Slim 293]

I don't get the Valetini love either, seems to mainly Brumbies fans promoting him.

No, it’s not.........

 

[Braveheart81]

The other option which I think is very possible is both Wilson & Nasirani play more in the centre and Salakaia-Loto is positioned in the wide channel in attack. I get the criticism of Salakaia-Loto playing wide in defence, but he is excellent there in attack.

I don't think you can get away with that though. It's on turnover ball where he got skinned out wide last year because that's where he's positioned when it happens.

 

[TSR]

I don't think you can get away with that though. It's on turnover ball where he got skinned out wide last year because that's where he's positioned when it happens.

Understand the concern - but it is an option and it’s notable that guys like Simon Raiwalui & Morgan Turinui (and potentially Thorn) still see 6 as his best position.

I can’t see it this year because of the dearth in locks, but there are plenty of areas in which he is a superior option than any of the other 6s.

 

[Braveheart81]

Understand the concern - but it is an option and it’s notable that guys like Simon Raiwalui & Morgan Turinui (and potentially Thorn) still see 6 as his best position.

I can’t see it this year because of the dearth in locks, but there are plenty of areas in which he is a superior option than any of the other 6s.

I agree. I just think that acceleration is where he's going to struggle to be a superstar 6.

To me this is the year where he's really become a star lock. He's doing the core roles of lock very well and is a more dynamic player than just about all the other locks we have.

Compared to 6 where he is bigger and more physical and a better lineout option than most 6s but will never be more dynamic or as good over the ball as his competitors.