Super Rugby AU Grand Final - Reds v Brumbies - Saturday 8th May 2021

[drewprint]

Oh miss me with the “we need to be aggressive” line when aggression is just throwing meaningless handbags. Aggression is not his issue, controlling his temper is, you can see how close he is to losing it in that exchange. Dane Coles et al. will goad him into yet another red card if he can’t keep his shit together.

Sorry but I’ve got to call this comment out. Close to losing it? He either did or didn’t. And here he didn’t. LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) can rightly be questioned for his discipline in past occurrences but here he got fired up but ultimately kept his cool. And the whole incident ended up putting a rocket up the Reds and I’d contend continued a big part of their momentum into that final quarter.

 

[Viking]

Well watched the replay and you can't ask for much more in terms of a finish to the season. Great watching. Congratulations Reds.

Even though he was on the losing side i thought Valetini was clearly man of the match. I think he may have played Wilson out of the Wallabies at number 8.

Tupou is a fucking machine. 85th minute and he's hitting the defensive line at full speed. We'll see how he goes for the Wallabies but he's just about the best prop in the world. love him.

Although a great watch, i didn't think the quality of the actual footy played was very good. A lot of dropped ball on a dry track, skill execution pretty shit, not many line breaks etc. Plenty to work on.

Edit: revising my opinion, Tupou MotM.

Valenti has been a beast all season. But I like him at 6, not sure he's great at the back of a scrum. Who are you assuming is at 6 is Valetini has played Wilson out of the jersey?

I'd still have 6. Valetini 8. Wilson.

 

[drewprint]

Nah, tap is the only 100% guaranteed option not to risk a turnover in that situation after the siren………..

Although the Reds would likely have annihilated the Brumbies scrum in that 8 v 6 scenario, there’s always a chance someone drops a bind, loses their footing, gets pinged for angling in, or the Reds pack get too overexcited and push early.

This makes total sense come the sobering daylight of the next day. But at the game we couldn’t comprehend it! Everyone is whipped up into a scrum frenzy.

 

[Viking]

Sure, the eye test is fallible as well. And i definitely don't know anything. But, yeah, Valetini looked better to me and i don't otherwise have any particular bias for either player.

McReight - his workrate and accuracy in defence are definitely impressive. But he didn't seem to exert much influence at the breakdown either in winning turnovers or slowing the Brumbies ball. He also threw two shocking passes, so better link play would be good.

He's not as good as Hoops IMO (yet), and he won't win the Wallaby 7 jersey with just workrate against Hooper (i have obvious bias here, though).

I've always been critical of Hooper. Always favoured Pocock over him. But I agree with everything in your post.

Hooper is better then McReight.

 

[Pfitzy]

First half, Valetini popped up for a few hitups, sort of half-broke some tackles while going to deck, and didn't really do much over the gain line with the ball. Wilson chopped his legs a few times from memory, but didn't do much on the run either. I think Wilson hasn't has as good a season as his first, TBH. Shame about the concussion.

Valetini's yellow was a bit unfortunate, but ultimately lazy and correct via the current framework. His cleanout penalty early on was textbook correct by Berry - came in from a distance, was not looking to bind, left his feet. Plane landing = easy call.

He was forced to cover up a few rucks when it looked like the game plan broke down a bit, and the Brumbies recycled too fast to get back in their patterns. Got a good ruck penalty as well when the Reds forgot to cover up Petaia. It wasn't a great night for line breaking ball runners as both teams came up on D quite quickly and made their tackles at a high percentage.

Between halftime and the yellow card he did almost nothing in terms of ball carrying and only a couple of tackles. The ball really didn't go near him as he continued to roll out into the second channel, looking to put in a dominant hit. Yeah couple of important goal-line tackles when the Brumbies were under pressure, but that was pretty much all of the Ponies at that point.

The fact that the commentators say your name a bit doesn't mean you were the dominant player on the park.

McReight was the most effective loose forward on the park by a ways, and I thought Lonergan was the best of the tight five players out there, now he's shaken the nerves at lineout.

 

[Up the Guts]

Sorry but I’ve got to call this comment out. Close to losing it? He either did or didn’t. And here he didn’t. LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) can rightly be questioned for his discipline in past occurrences but here he got fired up but ultimately kept his cool. And the whole incident ended up putting a rocket up the Reds and I’d contend continued a big part of their momentum into that final quarter.

It's not a binary outcome though, it's very rare that players react in the direct push and shove. But if you keeping pushing a player with a short temper close to the edge there's a good chance they'll do something stupid later in general play. A good example last year in the NRL was BJ Leilua losing his cool when his brother went down, managing to restrain himself in the push and shove and then on the stroke of fulltime making a pointless high shot off the ball that saw him suspended. Others might disagree but imo LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) gets too personally invested in the push and shove which leads to dumb plays down the track, plays which have hurt the Wallabies a few times.

FWIW I put Swinton in this same boat. I'm not leaving LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) out of my Wallaby 23 because of it but I definitely think it's something for him to work on.

 

[drewprint]

It's not a binary outcome though, it's very rare that players react in the direct push and shove. But if you keeping pushing a player with a short temper close to the edge there's a good chance they'll do something stupid later in general play. A good example last year in the NRL was BJ Leilua losing his cool when his brother went down, managing to restrain himself in the push and shove and then on the stroke of fulltime making a pointless high shot off the ball that saw him suspended. Others might disagree but imo LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) gets too personally invested in the push and shove which leads to dumb plays down the track, plays which have hurt the Wallabies a few times.

FWIW I put Swinton in this same boat. I'm not leaving LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) out of my Wallaby 23 because of it but I definitely think it's something for him to work on.

I find it bizarre you’re criticising LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) for something that might have happened, but it’s been that kind of thread I guess.

 

[Up the Guts]

I find it bizarre you’re criticising LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) for something that might have happened, but it’s been that kind of thread I guess.

Tom Wright might have got a yellow or even red for the neck roll, he didn't, can we criticise him?

 

[drewprint]

Tom Wright might have got a yellow or even red for the neck roll, he didn't, can we criticise him?

But mate, he did that action. This possible brain snap of LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) that you’re talking about didn’t actually occur. I feel like that’s a really odd comparison and you’re on a bit of a tilt in this thread, so I’ll just leave it there.

 

[Adam84]

It's not a binary outcome though, it's very rare that players react in the direct push and shove. But if you keeping pushing a player with a short temper close to the edge there's a good chance they'll do something stupid later in general play. A good example last year in the NRL was BJ Leilua losing his cool when his brother went down, managing to restrain himself in the push and shove and then on the stroke of fulltime making a pointless high shot off the ball that saw him suspended. Others might disagree but imo LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) gets too personally invested in the push and shove which leads to dumb plays down the track, plays which have hurt the Wallabies a few times.

FWIW I put Swinton in this same boat. I'm not leaving LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) out of my Wallaby 23 because of it but I definitely think it's something for him to work on.

I think the issue is that he didn’t lose his cool, but you’re saying he could have so that’s why he shouldn’t be selected.

Personally there are reasons not to select LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), he struggles to lower his centre of gravity in both tackling and running the ball, which causes issues occasionally with both high tackles and been held up, but I don’t think he has a hot head issue like Swinton.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Watched the replay this morning. What a triumph for the game here. Tense and exciting game, at the end of a competitive competition and a bumper crowd in a rugby heartland. My optimism is rising by the week.

 

[Adam84]

Tom Wright might have got a yellow or even red for the neck roll, he didn't, can we criticise him?

Isn’t that a completely different scenario, you’re asking whether a player should be judged based on the actions of something which did happen, not on something which could have happened?

 

[Up the Guts]

But mate, he did that action. This possible brain snap of LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) that you’re talking about didn’t actually occur. I feel like that’s a really odd comparison and you’re on a bit of a tilt in this thread, so I’ll just leave it there.

Isn’t that a completely different scenario, you’re asking whether a player should be judged based on the actions of something which did happen, not on something which could have happened?

Yeah maybe not the best example, perhaps better would be criticism (even from some of the Reds’ own supporters) of the decision making of the Reds in the last 10 and the issues it may have caused (even though they didn’t). Regardless, can’t believe LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) being hotheaded is such a controversial statement.

 

[I like to watch]

Watched the replay this morning. What a triumph for the game here. Tense and exciting game, at the end of a competitive competition and a bumper crowd in a rugby heartland. My optimism is rising by the week.

No doubt it was an unbelievably good finish, in an epic GF.

we are about to get a wake up call.
These two are a grade above our other three sides, and a grade below the kiwis.

the Tahs are in for the worst 5 weeks in their history.

 

[Sully]

This makes total sense come the sobering daylight of the next day. But at the game we couldn’t comprehend it! Everyone is whipped up into a scrum frenzy.

I guess if you take the scrum and win a penalty you get a free shot at scoring, but there's a risk of a penalty.
Take the tap and there's less chance of a penalty against you but no free cracks at the try. Except for off side.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Regarding Hooper, my views are pretty well known. But I'll just say if McReight continues this form for SRTT he'll only get harder and harder to not pick and that Hooper is VERY fortunate to not be playing in a comparable competition this year because I doubt he'd have come close to matching McReight this year. I think it's been really interesting how McReight has adapted to teams effectively playing Pocock Rules against him so he's suddenly carrying a lot harder and making a lot more tackles. I feel like all SRAU the pilfer has been de-powered a lot by the officials and opposition coaches, no teams are letting anyone get near the ball to pilfer it.

I don't think anyone can say who is better out of Hooper and McReight right now. You've got one basically playing Club off the bench, and the other who's basically MotM every time he walks out on the park, you can't compare the two right now. (Sadly) I full expect Hooper to be retained as the Wallabies Captain and then obviously must be the starting 7. But I don't think there is anything more he can do... short of flying Hooper back and having him play for every team he plays against.

 

[Adam84]

There’s some stats which aren't quantitated when it comes to some positions like pilferers, guys like Pocock forced teams to change or design their game plan to counter him, it forced teams to make selections purely based on his presence in the team. His ability to disrupt the ball wasn’t just about the number of turnovers forced, but how much it slowed down opposition ball or how many extra players were committed to rucks simply to get him off the ball.

Not saying McReight or Hooper are there, just that it’s difficult to assess these players without deeply analysing the impact they have on the game

 

[ACT Crusader]

Well done Reds, congrats to all their fans and to the crowd that rocked up. The rugby was a tough watch but the crowd and atmosphere added massively to the contest. It really was one of those games where either team could’ve walked away with the win and deserved it.

Hopefully we can get 40,000+ at the Reds vs Crusaders final in Super Rugby TT

 

[drewprint]

Righto. I’ve just finished my rewatch on Stan and it was well worth it; being there live it is hard to keep track of everything and also hard to watch things rationally when 42,000 other Reds fans are around you baying for blood. In the moment there were certainly a few moments that I thought the Brumbies got away with that upon rewatching were fair calls.

First up, there’s plenty of noise here and on Twitter about Berry and him gifting the game to the Reds. I'd like to respectfully provide a bit of counter argument to this. If you listen to some, the Reds were rolled out the royal treatment on the way to the title. However, like many others, I think the Reds got dudded on some calls too. I won’t go through them exhaustively, but notably at minutes 5, 30, 44, 66, and a shit tonne around the 78-80-overtime mark. I only raise this to highlight that plenty were missed the other way too, and should the result have gone the other way I think the Reds would have pretty good grounds to be questioning the lack of a match winning penalty try.

A brief comment on those last few minutes: every season some rule gets particular attention: this year it’s been the offside line. It's been sweated on literally all season, from word go. The Brumbies got penalised for it a few times throughout the match, but then it kicked into overdrive in those last 5 or so minutes, with a tonne of cynical ones. Is it such a surprise they got pinged for it once again in that final play? For those who called rubbish on that last call, I suggest you watch that moment again; Berry clearly calls last feet and puts his arm out for a Reds advantage before ASY (Angus Scott-Young) gets held up.

The game followed a familiar pattern: Brumbies come out hard and get rewarded, Reds regather, return serve, and get rewarded.

Reds top line thoughts: some wonderful booming clearances from Hegarty in the second half. Best game of the season for LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto); hugely physical on both sides of the ball. Wilson clearly given the task of marking Valetini and did a great job with low chopping tackles (for the most part!). McReight a phenom and look what else can you say about Tupou. For a prop to still be going that hard in such a brutal game at the 85th minute is truly exceptional.

Brumbies top line thoughts: Longeran was excellent, and brought the energy and impact that I think FF (Folau Fainga'a) lacks. I was more worried about him starting than FF (Folau Fainga'a) and he proved me right. Valetini a beast and along with Tupou is my first picked Wallaby. I thought Frost did really well at 6 - I'm definitely putting the cart before the horse here but could be an exciting, flexible Wallaby bench option eventually? White was an absolute shit of a pest in the best, most annoying way and was huge in running the Brumby show. Locked in at Wallaby 9 with McDermott on the pine.

Huge game, huge season. If you could bottle and sell the atmosphere in the stadium last night you'd be a billionaire - it was electric! I'm thrilled for the Reds but I'm more thrilled for Australian rugby. My focus now shifts to passionately cheering on each and every other Australian franchise as we hopefully collectively knock those bloody Kiwis off their high horse. Go Reds-Brumbies-Force-Rebels-Waratahs!

 

[fish59]

Thanks reds for a game I’ll never forget. Flew up and went with 20 or so mates, so good to see Caxton street heaving before and after the game. Had tickets in row 1 and row 3 right in front of where JOC (James O'Connor) scored. Absolutely unreal.

My best mate had 100 bucks on reds to win and James o Connor to score. Not a bad finish for him

The Brumbies can feel hard done by - they did everything possible to spoil the party and came up just short.

I thought Berry’s performance was pretty good under a lot of pressure. Tupou was correctly penalised for boring in. The penalties at the end were fair, with only a question mark over whether he called advantage properly for one and subjectivity for swain on the other. As lord Laurie says though, the brumbies could have taken that out of the game by winning the lineout.

The brumbies can be proud of themselves and the game can be proud of that unrivalled grandstand finish.

You must have been near me. We were in row 2.