Super Rugby 2023 QF: Blues vs NSW Waratahs

[The Ghost of Raelene]

This is impressive.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

So, @Marce, as @The Ghost of Raelene says, it's the vibe. Quoting random comments isn't the same thing as citing any specific decision(s) O'Keefe made that were wrong in terms of the Laws.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

GAGR predictable as clockwork.

"Wahhhh, the kiwi ref stole the game from us."

 

[LeCheese]

^ so as @The Ghost of Raelene says, it's the vibe. Quoting random comments isn't the same thing as citing any specific decision(s) O'Keefe made that were wrong in terms of the Laws.

The clanger for me was the shoulder to Hooper's head - understandable if BOK missed it, but the TMO should have pulled that up for a look.

The Tahs were comprehensively outplayed and BOK didn't change the outcome, but it's incredibly frustrating to see yet another instance of (potential) foul play overlooked - which mostly seems to happen against Aussie teams with Kiwi refs.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ absolutely agree wrt to the Papali'i on Hooper thing, as I commented live & again this morning. Other than that I didn't really see anything you don't see week in & week out from refs of all nationalities.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'd maybe be complaining if there was a single try in it but really? The Tahs lost 41-12. The refereeing was nowhere near the difference between the teams.

 

[qwerty51]

Probably nothing worse than hitting back at claims of poor refereeing with "look at the scoreboard" - not a single person is saying it cost the Tahs the game "we were robbed!!!111" The miss on Hooper (even after there was HIA confusion) and the live awarding of the Sullivan try say it all; it's not about specific poor law decisions - all refs make errors there. It's the vibe against Aus teams.

"Oh a NZ team scored a try, of course it's a try - I have a try but I'll check it if you want"
"Oh an Aus team scored a try, I doubt it, too rare must be something wrong with it, no try but I'll check it just to make sure"

"Aus player injured with head contact, nah probably just an accident, NZ players aren't dirty or reckless - rugby incident I'm sure play on."
"NZ player injured, we must check this to see what happened! There's undoubtedly foul play here"

A great example of this is that try scored by Speight(?) in a Bledisloe in maybe 2017 or '18? It was a fantastic try in NZ but the ref decides to check if DHP obstructed by being ahead of Speight. There was an exact same type of try scored by NZ against Aus years later. The attitude of the ref to check the Aus one and not the NZ was night and day. It's a subconscious bias.

Laugh all you want, it's a real thing. I could name plenty of incidents of clear foul play against Aus players in NZ that just go unnoticed. Watch the attitude by the refs' live attitudes to awarding tries in NZ v Aus games.

 

[Misunderstood fan]

Really? Edmed was pedestrian offering no spark whatsoever. Just shuffling the ball sideways. Too slow. But with the Waratahs game plan, it wouldn’t matter who you had at 10. They barely touch the ball.

Edmed is not a super rugby 10. Club rugby for sure. Donaldson will be missed new year, and you need to hope Bowen develops quickly or Harrison gets his body fit.
Donaldson had a good game attacking from the back and pushing the game in the opposition’s territory, in the first half anyway. The game plan for the past two seasons has been questionable and doesn’t utilise the best of its players in attack.

 

[stillmissit]

The clanger for me was the shoulder to Hooper's head - understandable if BOK missed it, but the TMO should have pulled that up for a look.

The Tahs were comprehensively outplayed and BOK didn't change the outcome, but it's incredibly frustrating to see yet another instance of (potential) foul play overlooked - which mostly seems to happen against Aussie teams with Kiwi refs.

LC, that was a serious hit with no arms and had he connected his head with Hooper's head, it would have been a red card, certainly a yellow for reckless play based on what I could see. I was surprised that BOK, who's one of the best refs in the world, 2 assistants and the TMO missed it.
BTW didn't notice a shoulder to the head. Had Hooper gone down holding his head as opposed to his shoulder he could have forced a review but that ain't how he plays.

 

[stillmissit]

Probably nothing worse than hitting back at claims of poor refereeing with "look at the scoreboard" - not a single person is saying it cost the Tahs the game "we were robbed!!!111" The miss on Hooper (even after there was HIA confusion) and the live awarding of the Sullivan try say it all; it's not about specific poor law decisions - all refs make errors there. It's the vibe against Aus teams.

"Oh a NZ team scored a try, of course it's a try - I have a try but I'll check it if you want"
"Oh an Aus team scored a try, I doubt it, too rare must be something wrong with it, no try but I'll check it just to make sure"

"Aus player injured with head contact, nah probably just an accident, NZ players aren't dirty or reckless - rugby incident I'm sure play on."
"NZ player injured, we must check this to see what happened! There's undoubtedly foul play here"

A great example of this is that try scored by Speight(?) in a Bledisloe in maybe 2017 or '18? It was a fantastic try in NZ but the ref decides to check if DHP obstructed by being ahead of Speight. There was an exact same type of try scored by NZ against Aus years later. The attitude of the ref to check the Aus one and not the NZ was night and day. It's a subconscious bias.

Laugh all you want, it's a real thing. I could name plenty of incidents of clear foul play against Aus players in NZ that just go unnoticed. Watch the attitude by the refs' live attitudes to awarding tries in NZ v Aus games.

There may be some truth in what you say but I put it down to the work the Kiwi teams do on understanding what they can get away with and what they can't. We walk onto the ground without a clue mostly and even if there are some discussions they seem to forget them as soon as the whistle blows to start.

 

[Braveheart81]

Probably nothing worse than hitting back at claims of poor refereeing with "look at the scoreboard" - not a single person is saying it cost the Tahs the game "we were robbed!!!111" The miss on Hooper (even after there was HIA confusion) and the live awarding of the Sullivan try say it all; it's not about specific poor law decisions - all refs make errors there. It's the vibe against Aus teams.

My comment was a repsonse to Marce putting BO'K's head on a Blues jersey and saying he was MOTM.

I don't think his performance was great but likewise it wasn't diabolical.

I do think O'Keefe has a big general tendency to be oblivious to potential foul play by avoiding looking at issues wherever possible.

 

[stillmissit]

Edmed is not a super rugby 10. Club rugby for sure. Donaldson will be missed new year, and you need to hope Bowen develops quickly or Harrison gets his body fit.
Donaldson had a good game attacking from the back and pushing the game in the opposition’s territory, in the first half anyway. The game plan for the past two seasons has been questionable and doesn’t utilise the best of its players in attack.

I thought Donaldson looked better than Wright as a potential Wallaby FB, pity Coleman didn't use him more at 15.

 

[qwerty51]

There may be some truth in what you say but I put it down to the work the Kiwi teams do on understanding what they can get away with and what they can't. We walk onto the ground without a clue mostly and even if there are some discussions they seem to forget them as soon as the whistle blows to start.

Not sure I can accept that but I will accept is the lack of educated complaining by the Australian teams. He might've but it wasn't clear on the broadcast if Hooper even complained the BOK that he had been hit in the head. You absolutely know if the roles were reversed Dalton would've been immediately into BOK's ear about Hooper's hit on him. Aus players are far too passive - did any see Tizzano clearly held in the scrum on Pita Gus' try last week?? It was barely mentioned to the refs.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Edmed is not a super rugby 10. Club rugby for sure. Donaldson will be missed new year, and you need to hope Bowen develops quickly or Harrison gets his body fit.
Donaldson had a good game attacking from the back and pushing the game in the opposition’s territory, in the first half anyway. The game plan for the past two seasons has been questionable and doesn’t utilise the best of its players in attack.

I tend to agree. Probs a chat for the Waratahs thread but both Edmed and Donaldson are good Club players.

I hope Bowen kicks in and becomes the long term 10. Everything he’s shown so far gives me no reason to think he isn’t worthy of a couple of seasons to prove it. There’s other 10s in club land I’d be content with getting squad positions with Donaldson gone. Look at the effort Burey has put in at the Force. I have little doubt a guy like Gibbs at Norths wouldn’t do similarly. Jack McGregor at Gordon would do as good as good as what we currently have.

 

[LeCheese]

BTW didn't notice a shoulder to the head. Had Hooper gone down holding his head as opposed to his shoulder he could have forced a review but that ain't how he plays.

Hooper was holding his head for the first 10sec or so he was down, and then periodically throughout the rest of the time he was down and walking off for the HIA-that-wasn’t. Didn’t make a difference it would appear

 

[stillmissit]

I tend to agree. Probs a chat for the Waratahs thread but both Edmed and Donaldson are good Club players.

I hope Bowen kicks in and becomes the long term 10. Everything he’s shown so far gives me no reason to think he isn’t worthy of a couple of seasons to prove it. There’s other 10s in club land I’d be content with getting squad positions with Donaldson gone. Look at the effort Burey has put in at the Force. I have little doubt a guy like Gibbs at Norths wouldn’t do similarly. Jack McGregor at Gordon would do as good as good as what we currently have.

Wonder if Coleman feels the same? He does know a lot about Gordon players and despite Edmed's potential he seems to have plateaued.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

It's the vibe against Aus teams.

Laugh all you want, it's a real thing.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Wonder if Coleman feels the same? He does know a lot about Gordon players and despite Edmed's potential he seems to have plateaued.

He must about Donaldson if he’s leaving. You don’t let 10s you want leave unless you can’t afford them which I highly doubt he’s getting astronomical money.

I think it just might be Edmeds level. Good player not a great player. Solid defender and low on errors but won’t tear you apart or really dissect a Defence like we’ve seen Carter Gordon do.

He’s brought Goddard and Vailanu with him from Gordon via LA. They deserve their shot. He hasn’t given jobs to any players that don’t deserve it I don’t think. None of his Rats players that he won with are around.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

With the Hooper HIA thing, I actually think it was Hooper and Taumoepeau trying to get it reviewed.

 

[Doritos Day]

Probably nothing worse than hitting back at claims of poor refereeing with "look at the scoreboard" - not a single person is saying it cost the Tahs the game "we were robbed!!!111" The miss on Hooper (even after there was HIA confusion) and the live awarding of the Sullivan try say it all; it's not about specific poor law decisions - all refs make errors there. It's the vibe against Aus teams.

"Oh a NZ team scored a try, of course it's a try - I have a try but I'll check it if you want"
"Oh an Aus team scored a try, I doubt it, too rare must be something wrong with it, no try but I'll check it just to make sure"

"Aus player injured with head contact, nah probably just an accident, NZ players aren't dirty or reckless - rugby incident I'm sure play on."
"NZ player injured, we must check this to see what happened! There's undoubtedly foul play here"

A great example of this is that try scored by Speight(?) in a Bledisloe in maybe 2017 or '18? It was a fantastic try in NZ but the ref decides to check if DHP obstructed by being ahead of Speight. There was an exact same type of try scored by NZ against Aus years later. The attitude of the ref to check the Aus one and not the NZ was night and day. It's a subconscious bias.

Laugh all you want, it's a real thing. I could name plenty of incidents of clear foul play against Aus players in NZ that just go unnoticed. Watch the attitude by the refs' live attitudes to awarding tries in NZ v Aus games.

Ioane stepping out in Wellington 2020 and the Kerevi "illegal" pick and go Perth 2021 some further examples.