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Super Rugby 2023 Final - Chiefs v Crusaders

cyclopath

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
waiopehu oldboy said:
AL-B has been cited:

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz www.stuff.co.nz
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That "mitigation" call from the TMO was the most farcical decision of the night. "Player dipped" - he landed after catching the ball and sunk down a couple of inches as anyone who just jumped to catch a ball would. ALB was never going anywhere but high.
Can the ABs get a few "3 half" trial games in before the first Test, now that's the question.
 
teach

teach

Trevor Allan (34)
cyclopath said:
That "mitigation" call from the TMO was the most farcical decision of the night. "Player dipped" - he landed after catching the ball and sunk down a couple of inches as anyone who just jumped to catch a ball would. ALB was never going anywhere but high.
Can the ABs get a few "3 half" trial games in before the first Test, now that's the question.
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Yep. I thought there was no way that O'Keefe was going to have the balls to red card him and pretty much hand the match to the crusaders that early. So I was not surprised when he called a yellow and dumped it on the TMO to deal with, who also bottled it.
 
molman

molman

Jim Lenehan (48)
teach said:
Yep. I thought there was no way that O'Keefe was going to have the balls to red card him and pretty much hand the match to the crusaders that early. So I was not surprised when he called a yellow and dumped it on the TMO to deal with, who also bottled it.
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It was fair enough to put it on review for the TMO to call with the new system. It was Pickerill who seemed to forget his World Rugby red card training, but like @waiopehu oldboy said there have been some damn odd calls this season in light of what we are likely to see on the world stage very shortly. Which is doubly questionable with Pickerill being one of the anointed TMOs. On one front we have everything below the pro game in England (and other places) shifting to a lower tackle height and then here we have direct, at speed, front on, head on head contact that looked a right mess in slowmo, resulting in a failed HIA (which was obvious with how DM looked after) being waved by. It's all a bit of a mess honestly. I'm not a fan of cards or a ruined contest, but that was reckless & poor technique by AL-B and it's not like the team doesn't get a player back after 20mins with the current red card trial.
 
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Adam84

Adam84

Rod McCall (65)
Dan54 said:
I not sure why anyone would blame any refs , the game played out because of how both teams played, refs didn't cost anyone the game. I was a neutral, and I saw the odd things the refs/AR missed, but nothing that cost anyone the game. Boy I say it all the time, the refs don't make as many mistakes as the players, and until people don't get hung up on what they see as injustices , they will miss out on enjoying the game.
I personally though (as I said) it was a great final. absolutely what you could want from such a game. Crusaders won, because they probably made some good plays at crucial times etc, and with someone like Scott Barrett (who I am prepared to argue is best player in NZ this year) just monstering everything, the counter swung their way. Neither do I think the Chiefs were bad, they played bloody good rugby, have a pack of good players, but were beaten by best team. I will say that Narawa on right wing for Chiefs showed why he has made ABs, DMac etc all looked good, and I thought Codie taylor showed he is still probably best hooker in NZ.
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I thought it was pretty poor form when the crowd booed the match officials in the formal presentation post match

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1672540170183122945
 
waiopehu oldboy

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
The WR (World Rugby) high tackle framework talks about a "sudden" change in the carrier's height being mitigation, which as @cyclopath points out wasn't the case here. For whatever reason Super Rugby match officials seem to have been going out of their way to find mitigation regardless.

Edit: this was the reasoning behind my "can't see it being upgraded to Red" comment on Saturday night.
 
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Dan54

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
waiopehu oldboy said:
The WR (World Rugby) (World Rugby) high tackle framework talks about a "sudden" change in the carrier's height being mitigation, which as @cyclopath points out wasn't the case here. For whatever reason Super Rugby match officials seem to have been going out of their way to find mitigation regardless.
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I actually don't mind them going out of way to avoid red cards etc. I know in last 4 tears we have all seen cards as a great punishment, I prefer not unless absolute dirty play. The game I have watched for 60 odd years has always been alomost always 15 v15, and now we wanting more cards? I have no problems where a case like ALB got YCed, and he ends up getting cited. He didn't stomp etc, made a cock up of chasing through etc and never went low enough, I didn't really think he did it on purpose, so am happy with outcome. I know how it's beome it's about HIAs etc, but regardless I never want refs to find a reason to red card players, rather see if there a doubt YC and let it get sorted later.
Just my opinion of how cards should be handled.
 
waiopehu oldboy

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
^ Which is why there needs to be a three-tier system at all levels where there's a TMO: YC with referral for reason(s) why it's not Red; YC upgraded to Red with replacement after 20minutes; and upgraded to Red with no replacement for actual foul play e.g. stomping, gouging etc. I also think that if a player taken off for HIA after a Card incident fails the HIA it shouldn't count toward the allowable number of subs.
 
John S

John S

Peter Fenwicke (45)
waiopehu oldboy said:
^ Which is why there needs to be a three-tier system at all levels where there's a TMO: YC with referral for reason(s) why it's not Red; YC upgraded to Red with replacement after 20minutes; and upgraded to Red with no replacement for actual foul play e.g. stomping, gouging etc. I also think that if a player taken off for HIA after a Card incident fails the HIA it shouldn't count toward the allowable number of subs.
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Yeah, but that actually makes a little bit of sense
 
Dan54

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
waiopehu oldboy said:
^ Which is why there needs to be a three-tier system at all levels where there's a TMO: YC with referral for reason(s) why it's not Red; YC upgraded to Red with replacement after 20minutes; and upgraded to Red with no replacement for actual foul play e.g. stomping, gouging etc. I also think that if a player taken off for HIA after a Card incident fails the HIA it shouldn't count toward the allowable number of subs.
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No HIA ever counts towards number of subs. You allowed to use your 8 subs, but for HIA you can replace them regardless. ( reasoanably confident that right anyway)
 
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