Super 7s

[Nipper]

They're an independent for profit company. Same group that run the Vegas event under licence from USAR. They don't require a licence for the CRC as its their own property. The USARU have no hand in it at all.

Back to the S7s for a moment. This is what confuses me, UWS has the working relationship with USAR and the 12 city squads have already been mandated by USAR to qualify for the World Club 7s. Why nit just take that and build a 15s competition of their own and forgo this contrived exhibition.

Why would they want to take it and make it a 15s competition?

 

[Nipper]

Force, Brumbies - take notes.

The Force are holding their own quite well, attendance-wise, thank you very much. Perhaps you're thinking of the other team in blue, the Tahs?

 

[USARugger]

Haha just couldn't resist the chance - it was a sideways jab at best.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Why would they want to take it and make it a 15s competition?

Because it would provide the ready made infrastructure to ensure the highest possible standard of play. These locations were determined for a good reason. The nature of these squads mandates regional/city focus that is needed. They are looking for an opportunity to launch a league concept but from those who witnessed it first hand there's little excitment.

It's not just them. The groups behind the NRFL concept or the APRC should be looking to do likewise. Professional rugby needs a platform in which to grow from before players can realistically expect to be paid for their efforts or most importantly for investors to take a gamble on.

These groups want them to fork out millions of dollars for unproven concepts. A smart group would secure the sanctioning, chase the spinsorship side of it and get it broadcast. All very achievable. Hell even Ultimate Frisbee have been able to get something off the ground in a similar manner. People are trying too hard to be a major league without getting the damn thing off the ground.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

The Force are holding their own quite well, attendance-wise, thank you very much. Perhaps you're thinking of the other team in blue, the Tahs?

Tahs last home game saw around 20,000 show up for a game against the Lions. Our crowds are recovering thank you very much.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Oh, I should add that the final score for the Super 7s exhibition game was 79-43 in favour of the Ontario Blues over the New York 'Rhinos'.

 

[Nipper]

Because it would provide the ready made infrastructure to ensure the highest possible standard of play. These locations were determined for a good reason. The nature of these squads mandates regional/city focus that is needed. They are looking for an opportunity to launch a league concept but from those who witnessed it first hand there's little excitment.

It's not just them. The groups behind the NRFL concept or the APRC should be looking to do likewise. Professional rugby needs a platform in which to grow from before players can realistically expect to be paid for their efforts or most importantly for investors to take a gamble on.

These groups want them to fork out millions of dollars for unproven concepts. A smart group would secure the sanctioning, chase the spinsorship side of it and get it broadcast. All very achievable. Hell even Ultimate Frisbee have been able to get something off the ground in a similar manner. People are trying too hard to be a major league without getting the damn thing off the ground.

But you never answered why it should be 15s?

 

[Nipper]

Tahs last home game saw around 20,000 show up for a game against the Lions. Our crowds are recovering thank you very much.

Is that good for the largest metropolis in Australia, with the table-topping side?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

But you never answered why it should be 15s?

It's the format that has the most opportunity to offer a fan the ability to actually build an attachment to the team. As good as 7s can be the best games cannot compete with a good game of 15s let alone an outstanding one. There's a far broader range of skills in 15s. Better characters. More physical, more tactical etc. Basically, all the elements I think many Americans would enjoy as opposed to 7s.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Is that good for the largest metropolis in Australia, with the table-topping side?

Not great, no. But considering they got down to as low as 13,000 only a couple of seasons ago its a good recovery. Particularly in a market that has a great deal of options in terms of entertainment in general let alone in sporting teams in which to follow.

If the Tahs continue on their way next season should see more of a return to the days where between 27-30,000 was the average with a number of games the topping 35,000.

 

[Nipper]

Not great, no. But considering they got down to as low as 13,000 only a couple of seasons ago its a good recovery. Particularly in a market that has a great deal of options in terms of entertainment in general let alone in sporting teams in which to follow.

If the Tahs continue on their way next season should see more of a return to the days where between 27-30,000 was the average with a number of games the topping 35,000.

It's the format that has the most opportunity to offer a fan the ability to actually build an attachment to the team. As good as 7s can be the best games cannot compete with a good game of 15s let alone an outstanding one. There's a far broader range of skills in 15s. Better characters. More physical, more tactical etc. Basically, all the elements I think many Americans would enjoy as opposed to 7s.

I think you're missing the mark. If pro rugby is to succeed in the US, you need to convert a good number of the general public (outside of people who are already fans of the game).

Some of the reasons you mention are exactly why the general American public WON'T jump on to the rugby train if 15s were to be the professional version. Sadly, Joe Six-pack doesn't have the patience to sit down and learn the nuances of tactical kicking or sit through multiple scrum resets or aerial ping pong. They won't invest the time to learn why a prop has great scrummaging skills or technique.

Conversely, 7s offers everything that the American sports viewer enjoys - end-to-end action, a premium on athleticism, a game that's easy to understand, speed, etc. Not to mention the ability for broadcasters to insert commercial breaks at halftime and between games (a not so insignificant factor).

If professional rugby ever gets up and running in the US, it will be through 7s, not 15s. This isn't to say that 15s isn't a great game - it just doesn't offer the commercial appeal that 7s does. Pro 7s may open the door for a future pro 15s league (7s serving as a "gateway drug", if you will). The final product may not be the Super 7s format, but it won't be 15s, and the commercial interests reflect that.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Nipper,

Using similar reasoning then surely the Arena Football League should hugely popular as its essentially a shortened version of American Football . Quicker, more end to end (comparatively) offering higher scoring games.

But that's not the case. Furthermore, the fact that the NFL is the most popular sports league in the states suggest joe six pack could get their heads around the 15 man game as American Football in its nature and tactics is really no more complex or simple than Rugby.

 

[Nipper]

I disagree. The difference is that the NFL is well-established and well-entrenched. Rugby is new, and something they have to learn. They don't want to learn - they want to be entertained.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I disagree. The difference is that the NFL is well-established and well-entrenched. Rugby is new, and something they have to learn. They don't want to learn - they want to be entertained.

It is possible to learn and be entertained at the same time. There's no reason why new fans couldn't be drawn to the 15 man game. As a NFL/College Football fan that's how I went about it. I don't buy the whole inability to get their heads around it argument. I know a few Americans who have taken up the game after moving over here.

 

[Nipper]

Not saying that they can't learn the 15s game, I'm saying they WON'T learn the nuances of the game.

Same reason why "The Bachelor" is more popular than any science show on TV.

At the end of the day it's a numbers game for the broadcasters. And, the commercial interests bear this out - there is a lot of interest in 7s as a commercial vehicle, and not a lot in 15s.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

But has the 15man game ever had as much opportunity as 7s in terms of exposure. Initially learning the nuances isn't as big a determining factor as the entertainment factor. If someone finds what is presented as entertaining then they will tune in again. As they continue to do so they will learn the finer points of the game.

I really dislike the idea that you have to immediately understand its nuances to find it entertaining. It just not true.

Anyway, we'll be able to gauge the appetite from the 15 man game with thhe AB game this November.