Super 14 vs Heineken

[formeropenside]

I would have had Blake for Baxter, and probably Baxter as LHP or on the bench as the reserve prop.

:nta:

Because we didn't look unfit enough?
Because it would have at least been acceptable to lose with Blake there?
Because Baxter actually WAS on the bench, and Shepherdson was the starting THP?

My bad, I thought Baxter was starting 3 for that game - although I have tried to banish the memory from my mind.

In 07, I rated Blake higher than Baxter as a THP (and he is 6 or 7 years younger as well). Probably Robinson ahead of Dunning too (which I notice you dont take issue with) but as I said, I'm not sure how much of that is hindsight.

What I will say about Blake, is that I wish he kept his ARU contract, as I think Deans and Foley could have really made something of him.

 

[Ash]

Yeah Spook - I thought that Vickerman was the worst player on the park that day. He was atrocious. In hindsight, it was wrong selecting him as he didn't have time to come back from injury and play himself into form. But hindsight is wonderful like that.

 

[Scarfman]

Well, I've had a look and I guess I can't add to much to the discussion above. In particular, I agree with NTA:

What I noticed about the Heineken final - and maybe it was just the two teams involved - but there was bugger all in the way of decent scrummaging, and bugger all in the way of a ruck contest, compared to S14 generally. Its hard to make a comparison based on the few games of NH rugby I've seen this year, but with penalties at ruck time there's just to attacking the ball.

At ruck time, the defending team looked too scared to counter-ruck, especially in the red zone.

In the scrums, it looked to me that both packs stopped scrummaging whenever a scrum started to pear-shaped. Fewer collapsed scrums that way, which was a weclome change.

Cheika's handiwork was all over Leinster. Backing up, and looking around for back-up, and expecting it to be there.

The biggest differences I noticed were the cliches, and I can't argue wioth them. NH teams weren't looking to score tries, they were looking for field position and 3 points. Not once did the HEC boys look to run from their own 22 or counter attack with the expectation of 5 points. The SH boys looked fitter, faster, even stronger, and they executed everything with more speed and accuracy.

No difference in mauling, and not much difference in the kicking game. I was suprised by the number of mid-field bombs in the HEC game.

Not too many tap'n'goes in the HEC. I guess it is only this that makes S14 look messy, because I would back the Bulls in the set peice against Leinster.

Oh - last thing - there was a noticeable difference in tackling. S14 teams were tackling in such a way as to get caught between the ball and the opposition halfback. HEC refs wouldn't let them do this as much, I believe.

 

[Pfitzy]

). Probably Robinson ahead of Dunning too (which I notice you dont take issue with)

I knew Fat Cat would be good, but not ready for England at that point, being only in his first full year for the Tahs (debut 2006). Dunning was a better option at the time, and played well that year overall. No-one else except Holmes was sticking their hand up, and he'd been injured from memory.

Blake might have been around Baxter's level at scrum time that year, but his fitness would put him behind the great man on almost every selector's book. Spook is probably right - Shepherdson had come on really well in late 2007, but he stopped improving.

 

[Cutter]

Both Holmes and Blake had operations mid season and didnt make it back.

 

[Spook]

). Probably Robinson ahead of Dunning too (which I notice you dont take issue with)

I knew Fat Cat would be good, but not ready for England at that point, being only in his first full year for the Tahs (debut 2006). Dunning was a better option at the time, and played well that year overall. No-one else except Holmes was sticking their hand up, and he'd been injured from memory.

Blake might have been around Baxter's level at scrum time that year, but his fitness would put him behind the great man on almost every selector's book. Spook is probably right - Shepherdson had come on really well in late 2007, but he stopped improving.

He went backwards in 08. Why? No idea ???

 

[fatprop]

Interesting line from Dwyer on ruggamatrix this week about the Bulls

He stated that the Bulls were near as good as the Springboks, his premise was that Bok "replacements" aren't that much better than the Bulls players.

 

[farva]

Interesting line from Dwyer on ruggamatrix this week about the Bulls

He stated that the Bulls were near as good as the Springboks, his premise was that Bok "replacements" aren't that much better than the Bulls players.

The only improvement I can see would be Bismark Du Plessis (is Kuun all there?), Juan Smith (he is up there with Rocky as the best there is), Jaques Fourie and Pieterson (I think he is the best wing in SA right now). South African props all seem to be much of a muchness. I think Brussouw might have added something, but he wasnt picked and I dont see Shalk adding much that Poitgeiter (sp?) wouldnt. I threw Fourie in there as I dont know much about the Bulls outside centre. Olivier is every bit as good as JdV.

I think the Chiefs are in a similar situation. While they are not supplying that many of the ABs, and if you disregard their front row, pretty much every player is not far off their AB counterpart.

 

[PaarlBok]

Yep thats a interesting one. Problem is that there is a big differense between S14 and test (altho most think its the closest you'd get). To try and put Meisiekind in Jeans class , fuck knows, he was tried at test level in the past but wasnt even close. Jean proved himself at top level for years, so that one sucks. I wont say Meisiekind cant play there but he still have to earn his coin on that level. Lets look at the players comparing with the Brutes.
Kirshner - great talent but Steyn has won us a WC. Maybe a new position for him but he'll fit in their easier then a newbie.
Habana - Nokwe the closest. If you want to go the S14 route I think Nokwe had a better S14 from start to finish.
Jaco - Nowhere close at the moment to AD or Mossie
Meisiekind - Jean streets ahead.
Twin - Pietersen streets ahead
M Steyn vs Pienaar. Ditto the Meisiekind catagory but I'll back Morne to become a big one. Pienaar a totally diffirent player.
FdP - class of his own.
Spies vs Kankowski. Spies get my nod but Kankowski will make most international sides.
Stegman vs Schalk. Ditto Meisiekind catagory altho I wont drop a tear if Stegman wears green.
Potgieter vs Juan Smith. Ditto Meisiekind and more.
Bakkies vs Muller. Bakkies by a mile but Muller also did not play bad in green in the past
Matfield vs Bekker. I rate Bekker the closest lineout lock to Matfield in rugby. Both are backline locks and Bekker will win the camel race here.

Wont even look at the fatties, Sharks ones are in the hot seats and the Brute lot not even second.

Tell Dyer he is talking kak. :lmao:

 

[Biffo]

Tell Dyer he is talking kak. :lmao:

Morning PB. Got even greater hatred for all things Australian today because Nathan Hines beat the shitter out of your blokes last night?

 

[Gagger]

From Planet Rugby:

Former New Zealand international lock Chris Jack has poked fun at the standard of European club rugby, calling it 'easy'.

Jack, who has spent the last two seasons with English club Saracens, said he was returning home to New Zealand because he wanted to play a higher level of rugby.

"I'm not going back just to muck around. If I wanted to muck around I would have stayed up there," he told reporters in Sydney on Thursday.

"I want to come back and I want to play well. If I wanted to play easy rugby I would have stayed up in the northern hemisphere."

Jack, who is in Sydney preparing to play for the Barbarians against Australia this weekend, said he hoped his return to New Zealand would rekindle his international career.

The 30-year-old last played for the All Blacks at the 2007 World Cup in France but is eyeing a return to the Test arena for the 2011 World Cup, to be held in New Zealand.

"I want to play good rugby again. I want to play challenging rugby and I want to enjoy it," he said.

"The (English) premiership gets a bit tough after a while of the same sort of stuff. It's good to play some rugby that's enjoyable."