Suncorp Stadium: Why Is It So?

[Scotty]

Scarf: I've lived in both places over the last 10 years (and was just at ANZ on June 19), and, I agree with you! The Brisbane/Suncorp crowd is more a mix of all types and sizes so to say, and I would definitely agree the crowd up here is more noisy and high on intensity in Walls support than what I've seen at ANZ....BUT, and this is a big but, gee, I found ANZ an awfully mood-dampening place for top rugby (unless 100% full), and that may be a key factor in all of this (Sydney outcomes v Brisbane). Suncorp as you know was designed solely for mungo, dive, rugby and concerts, that's it, and IMO it works sooo much better for these rectangular games and great crowd support because of it.

Btw, you and Ruggo are the only ones to have invented some theories so far. Of course, it's a 'sideline' thread here I know, but also quite serious as if the general Wallabies w-l % in Oz was replicated also in Brisbane, our overall position would be a whole lot worse. And it's way beyond co-incidence.

Agree with the assessments of ANZ. Shocking atmosphere. Last went there for Aus vs Boks in 07. Boks sent a weak team, but game still only got 35k or so. It actually seemed like there was no one there at all the atmosphere was so bad. It was quite an average experience.

If the SFS could somehow be upgraded to 60-70k, it would be a much much better option for top level (or any level) games.

 

[Scotty]

I normally have dinner in Paddington as well. But mine consists of an amber liquid at the fine establishment the Paddo tavern.

Hate to quote myself, but there is another theory. The difference in the number of pubs and vicinity of the city to Suncorp vs the location of ANZ must be a big factor.

 

[cyclopath]

Waratahs vs Brumbies felt as though we were in a cavern of ice, haunted by the echo's of the dead.

Nice prose, DPK. Strangely, it felt the same at home watching on TV.

 

[Lee Grant]

It is well known that Sydney crowds are vanilla: the only time they get excited is when a Kiwi team is is town and the Kiwi fans lift their teams.

The Sydney crowd is not a rugby crowd; at least the Aussie component isn't: they are general sports fans who are having a night out at a sporting venue. Some are not even sports fans, especially in the members where many are guests of the ticket holders.

Even some of the sports fans think the league rules apply and complain about double movements being missed and have no clue that in union the ball can be placed for a try even if the arm carrying the ball has touched the ground.

I don't know what the problem is: if anybody thinks that Sydney sports crowds don't have passion they should go to Kogarah Oval to watch the Dragons play or to the SCG to watch the Swans - but they will be watching other sports.

Part of it is the union game itself and part is the availability of other sporting events in the city and other entertainment events not connected with sports. You can't even argue that it is the stodgy way that the Tahs play their rugby these days, for it was so in other years when the Tahs had a dig.

I said much the same things when I started writing in rugby forums in the late 1990's and if I am still around in 10 years time I will be saying the same thing.

The shape of the ground has nothing to do with it: the SFS is a terrific ground to watch rugby at, yet it has no effect on the general malaise of the Sydney crowd. It is worse at Homebush, which was designed for the Olympics and not for rectangular field sports like the two rugby codes or soccer. The playing field so big that AFL and cricket games can be played there. It will never be chopped down for rectangular field sports and it is no use suggesting that it should be for rugby purposes, because it would be like pissing in the wind.

And to conclude: it didn't matter that the big Tahs v Brumbies match was at Homebush because the funereal game was never going to lift those watching it.

.

 

[Reddy!]

I normally have dinner in Paddington as well. But mine consists of an amber liquid at the fine establishment the Paddo tavern.

Haha the Paddo, like it. I always get a good gauge of what the crowd and atmosphere at the game will be like when I'm walking down Given Tce past the Paddo. If it's packed and buzzing, you know the actually crowd atmosphere at Suncorp is going to be great.

 

[Ruggo]

It is well known that Sydney crowds are vanilla: the only time they get excited is when a Kiwi team is is town and the Kiwi fans lift their teams.

The Sydney crowd is not a rugby crowd; at least the Aussie component isn't: they are general sports fans who are having a night out at a sporting venue. Some are not even sports fans, especially in the members where many are guests of the ticket holders.

Even some of the sports fans think the league rules apply and complain about double movements being missed and have no clue that in union the ball can be placed for a try even if the arm carrying the ball has touched the ground.

I don't know what the problem is: if anybody thinks that Sydney sports crowds don't have passion they should go to Kogarah Oval to watch the Dragons play or to the SCG to watch the Swans - but they will be watching other sports.

Part of it is the union game itself and part is the availability of other sporting events in the city and other entertainment events not connected with sports. You can't even argue that it is the stodgy way that the Tahs play their rugby these days, for it was so in other years when the Tahs had a dig.

I said much the same things when I started writing in rugby forums in the late 1990's and if I am still around in 10 years time I will be saying the same thing.

The shape of the ground has nothing to do with it: the SFS is a terrific ground to watch rugby at, yet it has no effect on the general malaise of the Sydney crowd. It is worse at Homebush, which was designed for the Olympics and not for rectangular field sports like the two rugby codes or soccer. The playing field so big that AFL and cricket games can be played there. It will never be chopped down for rectangular field sports and it is no use suggesting that it should be for rugby purposes, because it would be like pissing in the wind.

And to conclude: it didn't matter that the big Tahs v Brumbies match was at Homebush because the funereal game was never going to lift those watching it.

.

Somebody really stuffed up when they redeveloped Stadium Australia after the Olympics. Western Sydney AFL was not on the radar and cricket is too traditionally based to ever move games away from the SCG. Union does not even come close to having the support to generate change but League most certainly does. It would of been extremely convinent for Union fans that we happen to play on the same size field as League. Was there ever a push at the time to renivate Stadium Australia into an exclusivly rectangular venue while at the same time upgrading the SCG so all major codes can be satisfied by both venues? It would of been logical.

QLD had the smarts to redevelop both Lang Park and the Gabba and as a result the punters get better value for their admission, regardless of what code they are attending. It comes as no suprise you get a better atmoshere in Brisbane than Sydney.

Victorians wont like to hear this but since the AFL and Cricket have become truly national sports, Brisbane has the edge over Melbourne as the sporting capital of Australia.

Lee I am no expert on the geographical layout of Sydney but how hard as a whole is it to get to the SFS? (I know it may be convenient for some but I mean Sydneysiders as a whole) One of the biggest praises for the Sydney Olympics was the transit to the Olympic park precinct. Has this fallen by the wayside in the last decade?

 

[Scotty]

The shape of the ground has nothing to do with it: the SFS is a terrific ground to watch rugby at, yet it has no effect on the general malaise of the Sydney crowd. It is worse at Homebush, which was designed for the Olympics and not for rectangular field sports like the two rugby codes or soccer. The playing field so big that AFL and cricket games can be played there. It will never be chopped down for rectangular field sports and it is no use suggesting that it should be for rugby purposes, because it would be like pissing in the wind.

It isn't the shape as such that is the issue it is the distance away from the playing field. The SFS has a much better atmosphere with 30k than Homebush does with 50k for this very reason. A 60k capacity SFS would fix all this pretty quickly IMO.

 

[Reddy!]

Victorians wont like to hear this but since the AFL and Cricket have become truly national sports, Brisbane has the edge over Melbourne as the sporting capital of Australia.

Nah, I think Melbourne is still, and quite easily, the sporting capital of Australia. It supports alot more sports and gets bigger crowds. Brisbane is a one team League town, and a one team AFL town, and one team Rugby town. Add soccer to that as well.

Melbourne/ Victoria supports 8 or more AFL clubs, 2 Soccer teams, 1 League team, 1 Rugby team. Australian Open, Formula One. Blah blah you get the picture.

Brisbane tops Sydney though, that much is true.

 

[Phantom_Prop]

My 2 cents is the answer is simple, the games played in brisbane are generally against weaker opposition, the big games (i.e Allblacks) are generally played in sydney or melbourne where the ARU can sell 60-90,000 tickets, the best they can do in brisbane is 53,000, so we get the lesser games like the boks, irish, etc.

 

[Scarfman]

^

This better not be right, 'cause I will feel like an idiot.

 

[RedsHappy]

It isn't the shape as such that is the issue it is the distance away from the playing field. The SFS has a much better atmosphere with 30k than Homebush does with 50k for this very reason. A 60k capacity SFS would fix all this pretty quickly IMO.

Agree Scotty, the enlarged SFS is really the way to go and it was kind of stupid (but hardly surprising) that League and rugby didn't come together years ago to push for this in their obvious joint interests (both are stuck with ANZ for various purposes). Part of the problem is that I believe a legal covenant was idiotically given by the NSW Govt (or similar) to the ANZ Stadium buyers (some time post the 2000 Olympics) to restrict the number of 'central' Sydney stadium seats to XX level such that the ANZ Stadium was not commercially threatened in that way.

I cannot believe that having to trek out to Homebush, sit in an over-sized, low-atmosphere, oval stadium designed for every event/sport but optimised for none, and with a forlorn atmosphere and with expensive tickets and food, is not a major problem for live Wallabies rugby in our biggest state. IMO, you really didn't feel many waves of Wallaby passion were hitting the park and lifting the players when I was there v England in June. (And btw, the crowd numbers vs Ireland in Brisbane were not far short of those that went to Sydney v England, and Bris is a fraction of Sydney's population.)

 

[I like to watch]

^

This better not be right, 'cause I will feel like an idiot.

The fact that the boks are winless there apart from Somoa in RWC is still valid, and demonstrates an obvious home advantage to the Wobblies

 

[Ruggo]

Agree Scotty, the enlarged SFS is really the way to go and it was kind of stupid (but hardly surprising) that League and rugby didn't come together years ago to push for this in their obvious joint interests (both are stuck with ANZ for various purposes). Part of the problem is that I believe a legal covenant was idiotically given by the NSW Govt (or similar) to the ANZ Stadium buyers (some time post the 2000 Olympics) to restrict the number of 'central' Sydney stadium seats to XX level such that the ANZ Stadium was not commercially threatened in that way.

I cannot believe that having to trek out to Homebush, sit in an over-sized, low-atmosphere, oval stadium designed for every event/sport but optimised for none, and with a forlorn atmosphere and with expensive tickets and food, is not a major problem for live Wallabies rugby in our biggest state. IMO, you really didn't feel many waves of Wallaby passion were hitting the park and lifting the players when I was there v England in June. (And btw, the crowd numbers vs Ireland in Brisbane were not far short of those that went to Sydney v England, and Bris is a fraction of Sydney's population.)

That is part of the problem with Rugby in Australia. Too many self interests impeding the growth of the game. What about those people who have to come from the other side of Homebush in the Western Suburbs? Is that not the growth area? How would they go traveling into the SFS?

 

[RedsHappy]

^

This better not be right, 'cause I will feel like an idiot.

From the ARU site (re Suncorp, not including the old Lang Park):

2003: Australia 29, South Africa 9
2003: Australia 90, Romania 8 (RWC)
2003: Australia 33, Scotland 16 (RWC Quarter-Final)
2004: Australia 51, England 15
2005: Australia 37, France 31
2006: Australia 49, South Africa 0
2006: New Zealand 13, Australia 9
2007: Australia 31, Wales 0
2008: Australia 40, France 10
2008: New Zealand 28, Australia 24
2009: Australia 21, South Africa 6

Suncorp opened in 2003. I don't think SA, France, England are necessarily weak sides. ABs a bit under represented on a per year basis but note all Suncorp AB Tests have been lost to them and this Brisbane w-l ratio is worse than the (still bad) overall ABs w-l home test average in this period so that will, pro-rata, weaken Suncorp's overall w-l ratio. This data says we beat everyone every time at SC bar ABs, and we always beat SA there.

 

[DPK]

2008: New Zealand 28, Australia 24

Fark, remember that one? We really should've won that.

 

[Ruggo]

2008: New Zealand 28, Australia 24

Fark, remember that one? We really should've won that.

Quick get this poor soul some QUADES.

 

[Scotty]

We should have won both the Suncorp AB games. Wasn't the other where Gerrard got ran down from behind by McCaw?

 

[DPK]

Quick get this poor soul some QUADES.

No worries guys, just got a new course of QUADE Forte.

 

[RedsHappy]

No worries guys, just got a new course of QUADE Forte.

I am now on an intravenous drip, since the team announcement for Saturday...

 

[RedsHappy]

We should have won both the Suncorp AB games. Wasn't the other where Gerrard got ran down from behind by McCaw?

I was at both and, objectively, Scotty I think you're right. Again, we just couldn't hold the intensity was often the reason as I recall. An wasn't the 2006 game at Bris the one where sloppy defence let John Rok go for that long distance try that fried us?

+ btw - NB how close the both AB Tests at Bris scorelines were - 4 points in each case!, small sample I know, but I think the average home PD for the ABs in say the last 10 years would be materially more than that...