strategies for the tri nations

[Sully]

A very astute comment - I was going to write something somewhere to that effect. Tom Carter is the Tahs S.Finger and he goes OK except on this forum. That argues against my case that Saia's 2nd chance to start in a big test match should not come in a RWC year but I wouldn't be too surprised if it did.

I have to say Lee that I'm not as against Tom Carter as I was. Until he speaks. And FFS get a real haircut look what it did for Cooper. But I would still personally prefer A. Fainga'a.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Tom Carter is the Tahs S.Finger and he goes OK except on this forum. That argues against my case that Saia's 2nd chance to start in a big test match should not come in a RWC year but I wouldn't be too surprised if it did.

I don't think Tommy would let anyone down as a loose forward, LG, but hooking requires mastery of the black arts of the scrum. Still, given the present coaching and selecting panel at the Wallabies, I suppose he has an equal probability of being chosen at 2 or 12.

Oops used wrong Finger.

LG

PS - Very droll Bruce

 

[disco]

I'd like to see Ant Fainga'a & AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as our 12/13 centre combo, sure they aren't 105-108 kg monsters like SBW & Fruen but they both play hard & tackle well & Fainga'a & Tapuai proved that you don't need to have 100k+ centres to mix it with the best.

The Stormers centre pairing of JDV & Fourie are big lads but they didn't handle SBW & Fruen as well as the Reds pair who really hit hard & low.

I think Ioane, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) & Fainga'a will balance out well with the JOC (James O'Connor), Beale & Quade.

I'm also not to worried about our scrum as long as Robinson, Moore & TPN are fit add in either Slipper or Kepu at Tight head & I don't hold any fears for our scrum folding like it did in 2007.

Horwill & Vickerman are also very good scrumaging locks.

 

[Gnostic]

People carry on like big centres are a modern thing. A. Herbert and D. Herbert were the first that I can think of in Oz and they were a while ago. The three best centres I have ever seen were more average in size and they had ALL the Rugby skills. My three best ever centres Horan, Sella and Bunce, and none of them were huge and even counting for the difference from when they played to today I think they would still be a walk up start anywhere.

 

[Athilnaur]

Bunce wasn't big but his defensive skills were practically telepathic, as was his ability to put others into space. To this day Bunce exemplifies Centre for me.

And I agree 100% Gnostic, those would be my 3 also.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Timmy wasn't a big bloke by any stretch, but what makes him by a country mile the best 12 I've ever seen was that he had every single tool that a player in that position could have: the ability to run straight, a serviceable kicking game, rock solid defence, rapid acceleration, a step off at least one foot, vision and good hands. Sella had more or less the same package but in a 13 jersey (he played 12 as well). They would tend to lend weight to the argument that you don't need to be big, right?

Anthony Herbert always looked like a bruiser to me back in the day, but I don't honestly remember his height or weight. Daniel was bigger again, but he played in the pro era, when the athletes started getting larger.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Bunce wasn't big but his defensive skills were practically telepathic, as was his ability to put others into space. To this day Bunce exemplifies Centre for me.

And I agree 100% Gnostic, those would be my 3 also.

As a young 'un Joe Stanley was my favorite player and a guy that I thought brought a combination if hardness and reliability to the AB midfield. I guess even when Bunce came on the scene a year or so later and made the AB 13 jersey his own, I still thought Smokin was a better player.

88 Concord oval, he combined brilliantly with his midfield partner Schuster and his outside, JK.

 

[Ruggo]

Me and you, TBH. Let's rip it up!

How's that for a world class combination.

 

[Joe Blow]

I cannot quite work out what the Boks strategy is.
Are they trying to give us and the Blacks a false sense of security before the SA leg of the tournament?

 

[Lee Grant]

Their strategy is to rest their players before the RWC on the Oz/NZ trip and then to play their best players at home so their box office isn't affected. IIRR they did the same thing 4 years ago and that worked out pretty well for them as I recall.

As I wrote in another thread: the impotence of their best team, the Stormers, in the Super Rugby final for most of the game, and the earlier demise of the Sharks in the semi after half an hour, will have convinced PdV that the way the Boks won the 2007 RWC will be the way to go this time also. Notwithstanding that they have some good backs in the country that way of bash and kick comes naturally to them and they are good at it.

So back to the 3N strategy: as well as resting their good players I'm guessing that the ones that remain for the trip here will play with that proposed RWC game strategy and the ones that perform best within that plan will be on the plane to NZ later in the year.

 

[Groucho]

Lee, it's ironic then that the touring party contains so many of their flair players.

 

[Lee Grant]

I said I was guessing.

 

[OLDDOG]

Well personally, I think the wallabies have the upper hand this world cup on x factor players. players who just keep pulling the moves out of the hat. what I did observe in the s15 final however, was the crus/blacks all rushing quade in 2s and 3s, preventing his googlesteps (new word). Thats why i luv dingos strategy of having 2 playmakers at 10 and 12. shut one down, the other has options and or SPACE. my money is still on berrick as 12, speedy recovery son, I really hope you're there for the showdown......

 

[Richo]

There is only one solution for this centre conundrum: Higginbotham at 13.

 

[Lee Grant]

Well personally, I think the wallabies have the upper hand this world cup on x factor players.

As Sully has indicated you need meat and potatoes players too. Sometimes you get players who are meat, potatoes and gravy in one meal - such as Horan, mentioned by Hornet. He is the best 12 I have ever seen also and for a while Little at 13 showed the same attributes.

We talk about attacking players reading the game and running good lines; these fellows did it on defence also and thought several defensive moves ahead like a top chess player. Mortlock was like this in his pomp too. This is one of the reasons why the absence of Horne has been so disappointing. He has the potential to be a Little but I fear that we will not see it realised.

Yes, we need X-factor on attack, but we need D-factor also.

 

[daz]

How's that for a world class combination.

Lucky for you I am bathed in the warm after-glow of the win, and smoking that metaphorical post-coital cigarette, otherwise I would have something to say about that post of yours.

Not the intent, which I agree with, but the content and phrasing....!

 

[tigerland12]

Yes, we need X-factor on attack, but we need D-factor also.

The only person in the likely backline that struggles defensively is Quade Cooper. Players like O'Connor and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) don't really get the recognition in defence that they should.

 

[Swarley]

When Horne comes back to full fitness, what happens to Ashley-Cooper? Will the two of them play 12/13 with O'Connor on the wing or will AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) play wing? He's way too good to be left sitting on the bench.

 

[daz]

Just as an aside to the 3N debate, and given the result of the weekend and the subsequent confidence and belief boost that the Wobs squad must have now, what are the realistic chances that Rocky will be holding the Bledisloe Cup over his head this year?

Forget the RWC and the 3N just for now; the most important piece of silverware for most Oz fans is the Bledisloe. Is it likely? Methinks it could well be......

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Daz, I dare not hope at this stage, but you never know...

As far as the razzle-dazzle v. solid players, I think we have enough of the former: Cooper, KB (Kurtley Beale), JOC (James O'Connor). AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is the kind of solid player we need to truck the ball up occasionally, but I will admit to being worried about his form. Barnes is another and I hope like hell that he can get better before the RWC, because I have a bad feeling about the 12 slot if he doesn't. That said, Giteau has been in good form this year.