Stormers vs Waratahs Round 10 @ Newlands

[Braveheart81]

The Stormers player was late to the contest regardless of whether he slipped or not. I don't think being harsh on dangerous play will reduce legitimate competition for the ball.

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[mst]

The Stormers player was late to the contest regardless of whether he slipped or not. I don't think being harsh on dangerous play will reduce legitimate competition for the ball.

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I didn't think he was late (nor was that part of the ruing from what I recall) as he was eyes on the ball and in a position to catch the ball if Foley didn't beat him in the contest from what was shown on screen. He was under Foley (where he slipped to) which showed he was in a position to catch it.

It was a poor call, no intention nor reckless, just a combination of not really jumping as high so he was always under the level of Foley and the slip being the final contributing factor to him ending up under Foley.

In the contest for a high ball the players are expected to have eyes on the ball, be positioned so they can compete for the ball and do it with care. Until he slipped he had achieved all of those requirements. How well he does them is irrelevant, as in this case, his attempt was poor but ligament. So where is the actual offence other than making a shit attempt and slipping?

IMHO it makes a mockery of the game if you get a red card for a shit attempt and a slip.

 

[Chunderstruck]

IMHO it makes a mockery of the game if you get a red card for a shit attempt and a slip.

Props get carded for slipping and being shit at scrummaging

 

[Braveheart81]

Foley has position in the air where the ball is coming down.

I agree that a red card is harsh and a yellow would have been sufficient but the player who is there first gets protected under the laws.

If Zas had jumped as he intended it's likely he would have still hit Foley in the air after Foley had first grab at the ball. He wouldn't have flipped him over but still would have taken the player in the air out.

If Foley isn't there of course Zas could catch it. He was there though and got to the space first.

The laws don't let you crash into a player in the air just because you had eyes for the ball.

It's a harsh penalty for something that isn't malicious but the laws and the rulings on them are designed to get rid of dangerous play and provide protections from it happening.

If one player gets to the ball drop early and has taken a position in the air they get protected there.

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[fatprop]

IMHO it makes a mockery of the game if you get a red card for a shit attempt and a slip.

So if you slip and coat hanger someone, Red Card or "a mockery of the game"

I think it is pretty clear and there was a moment later in the match where Folau clearly decides he will be late to the contest and essentially stops and doesn't compete for the ball in the air.

 

[tragic]

Definately a harsh call. The ball wasn't anywhere in the frame when he slipped and he would have been in a position to compete or disrupt if he hadn't slipped. You can see he plants his foot to try and launch in front of foley and it slips. There are plenty of examples from kick offs or box kicks of the player that arrived later still hooking the ball back to the supporting players. And you don't get red carded in a scrum for a simple slip - it gets moved and reset. Red card was a step too far.

 

[galumay]

bloody unseasonal dry season rain last night buggered the foxtel recording, normally there would be a sunday morning replay, but busy w'end of sport so I have to wait until 5:30pm to see the game, Doh!

 

[Jaghond]

Once a player is on the air, his safety must be sacrosanct.
This applies to BOTH teams - and for example, could also apply in a lineout where the jumpers' supports "drop" him.

If spectators want the spectacle of players leaping into the air etc - then the Ref MUST support them and their safety.

Whilst I acknowledge in this instance the Stormer's player did slip a little - he wasn't challenging Foley in the air at that moment - so I don't have much sympathy, I'm sorry.

I for one do not want to see ANY player become a quadriplegic or such like as a result of such an incident.

And Folau did EXACTLY the right thing (IMHO) in the instance referred to above. He realized he wasn't going to be able to effectively challenge for the ball - stopped - and then had a crack once the player "landed".

Nonetheless, a fantastic win for the Tah's.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Clear Red IMO, same as Emery last week: no malice but clearly dangerous.

 

[Pfitzy]

I always go back to: what would you give it without a replay?

If the TMO wasn't there, most refs are going red card where a bloke lands on his head after going into the air and getting hit by a guy on the ground.

For me, after seeing the replay of the incident, the slip is irrelevant - Foley was basically coming forward and into that space and the winger's timing was well off. No way was he getting up into a position to catch the ball if that slip was going to be his plant foot.

Yes his eyes were on the ball, and he'll get a "red card was sufficient sanction" because of it - he certainly shouldn't miss any more game time.

But it was extremely careless, a yellow card at the very least, and it creeps up into that Red category because of the outcome, not necessarily the intent. I don't think it was malicious but if we don't set a big, fat line in the sand we're going to have guys arguing the point.

And that's what backs get for wearing slippers instead of footy boots

 

[Braveheart81]

Match review is up - http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/waratahs-weather-the-stormers-at-cape-town/

 

[TSR]

I thought the changes to the rules had been quite specific - if a defender causes the ball catcher to land on the point of his shoulder or his head, it was an automatic red. As far as I understand circumstances leading up to it are irrelevant. People can argue whether that is what the law should be (personally I think the law is correct) but as I understand it the requitement of the ref is to red card the player 100% of the time.

 

[barbarian]

Clear Red IMO, same as Emery last week: no malice but clearly dangerous.

See I disagree. Emery tackled the player in the air, whereas Zas was challenging for the ball.

The laws put the ref in a bit of a bind here. He walked through the decision well, and by the laws it was correct. But was a red an appropriate punishment when the player was going for the ball but slipped?

I don't think so. A YC was the appropriate sanction IMO.
.

 

[barbarian]

Back to the game though- how good was that!!

Was built on strong defence in midfield, cutting off their offload game and not allowing their forwards to rumble.

If you told me in week 1 that we'd win a game by shoving the Stormers scrum back on their own line, securing a TH and ploughing over close I would have thought you were insane!

Beale is really putting his hand up for Wallaby 12, was great again. Also thought Skelton had his best game of the season, a menace at the rucks and has his mojo back with ball in hand.
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[tragic]

Challenging players in the air - Law 10.4(i)

• Play on – Fair challenge with both players in a realistic position to catch the ball. Even if the player(s) land(s) dangerously, play on
• Penalty only – Fair challenge with wrong timing - No pulling down
• Yellow card – Not a fair challenge, there is no contest and the player is pulled down landing on his back or side
• Red card – Not a fair challenge, there is no contest and the player lands on his head, neck or shoulder

I would argue that this was a fair challenge that was only a problem because of an accidental slip and the reaction was over the top and inconsistent with the laws of the game.
Anyhoo - at least an Oz team won which is always a good thing
Time to move on..

 

[Brumby Runner]

Back to the game though- how good was that!!

Was built on strong defence in midfield, cutting off their offload game and not allowing their forwards to rumble.

If you told me in week 1 that we'd win a game by shoving the Stormers scrum back on their own line, securing a TH and ploughing over close I would have thought you were insane!

Beale is really putting his hand up for Wallaby 12, was great again. Also thought Skelton had his best game of the season, a menace at the rucks and has his mojo back with ball in hand.
.

Tahs are now on their way to the finals. Should finish in front of Rebels, and Brumbies are now just out of the question.

 

[Braveheart81]

Dean Mumm maintained his 2 silly errors per match.

That first kick-off might have been a good one but he had heaps of time to get in the right position for the drop.

Being so far in front of the kicker on a kick-off was worse than schoolboy. It's like his brain just shuts off for a few seconds.

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[TahDan]

It was a great game and the improvement shown by the Tahs in their set piece in particular over the past couple weeks has been astonishing; beating a Stormers scrum for a tight head to essentially win the game was nothing short of incredible after the season the Tahs have had in that area.
That said, the odds certainly firmed in the Tahs favour when that red card was awarded. It was a dispassionate and clearly safety focussed decision, but given both players never stopped looking at the ball it still felt rough. All the same, the Tahs still had to win it, and they put in some great work to get the result in hostile territory against the South African conference leaders.
My only major concern was all their tries effectively coming up the middle and at close range thanks to poor Tahs Ruck defence and lack of players being committed.

 

[Groucho]

See I disagree. Emery tackled the player in the air, whereas Zas was challenging for the ball.

The laws put the ref in a bit of a bind here. He walked through the decision well, and by the laws it was correct. But was a red an appropriate punishment when the player was going for the ball but slipped?

I don't think so. A YC was the appropriate sanction IMO.
.

It's not for the referee to call that he would've missed if he'd kept his feet. Nor does it seem plausible, unless he has the super power of vaporization. The slip was thus a red herring and was rightly ignored, as it would be if you slip in a lifting tackle and accidentlally dump the player on his head.

 

[ChargerWA]

A really gutsy performance considering how hostile the crowd became and they had to come from behind.

Stormers have done the best job of engaging with black fans out of the 5 original franchises.