State of the Union (origin) discussion

[mst]

Cmon guys.

Rugby league is somewhat solvent, and we are not.

It is as a direct result of this exact thinking that we are in this situation.

Do we want to capture hearts and minds or do we want to home that middle age men don't die?

And more of that thinking that's behind this idea. Most of these are novelty ideas. League is solvent because they have a week to week dometic competition people can follow. Their SOO is the side show to earn a few extra bucks. 3 games a year. 3 weeks out of the main show.

The RA SOO concept is a whacked out perverse attempt at what is essentially a failed attempt at a domestic comp. 7 teams! How many games will it need to even be half decent? Are we talking 2 months worth of games? Team balance won't be equitable, part of the little audience we actually have wont give a F%$k. If you cut the teams what the difference between what we have in Super Au and that?

NRL fans will mock us for not even being able to plagiarise their concept properly. Many will question why we always get so close to a domestic competition then still can't get our shit together to actually have one; yet it what the game needs game needs.

 

[Bobby Sands]

And more of that thinking that's behind this idea. Most of these are novelty ideas. League is solvent because they have a week to week dometic competition people can follow. Their SOO is the side show to earn a few extra bucks. 3 games a year. 3 weeks out of the main show.

The RA SOO concept is a whacked out perverse attempt at what is essentially a failed attempt at a domestic comp. 7 teams! How many games will it need to even be half decent? Are we talking 2 months worth of games? Team balance won't be equitable, part of the little audience we actually have wont give a F%$k. If you cut the teams what the difference between what we have in Super Au and that?

NRL fans will mock us for not even being able to plagiarise their concept properly. Many will question why we always get so close to a domestic competition then still can't get our shit together to actually have one; yet it what the game needs game needs.

I say this at work all the time, and it’s been a hallmark of all excellent workplaces I’ve been apart of.

It’s not enough to criticise if you can’t suggest an alternative direction.

People who suggest solutions are valuable, people who knock others are widely available (not scarce).

As Glengary Glenross taught us, only closers get coffee.

 

[mst]

I say this at work all the time, and it’s been a hallmark of all excellent workplaces I’ve been apart of.

It’s not enough to criticise if you can’t suggest an alternative direction.

People who suggest solutions are valuable, people who knock others are widely available (not scarce).

As Glengary Glenross taught us, only closers get coffee.

The suggestions there and been suggest by many and for a long period; it what make many sports here in Australia solvent as you pointed out. A domestic competition.

Those who were best able to provide themselves with the means of security against their neighbors, being thus in possession of the surest guarantee, passed the most agreeable life in each other’s society… We must consider both the ultimate end and all clear sensory evidence, to which we refer our opinions; for otherwise everything will be full of uncertainty and confusion.

– Epicurus

 

[sendit]

And more of that thinking that's behind this idea. Most of these are novelty ideas. League is solvent because they have a week to week dometic competition people can follow. Their SOO is the side show to earn a few extra bucks. 3 games a year. 3 weeks out of the main show.

The RA SOO concept is a whacked out perverse attempt at what is essentially a failed attempt at a domestic comp. 7 teams! How many games will it need to even be half decent? Are we talking 2 months worth of games? Team balance won't be equitable, part of the little audience we actually have wont give a F%$k. If you cut the teams what the difference between what we have in Super Au and that?

NRL fans will mock us for not even being able to plagiarise their concept properly. Many will question why we always get so close to a domestic competition then still can't get our shit together to actually have one; yet it what the game needs game needs.

In what fucking realm is SOO a side show? It’s an absolute cash cow and in terms of the actual game it’s pretty widely accepted as the pinnacle of the sport, even more so than an international cap

We would be fools not to look at what our competitions do well and at least consider adapting it to fit our code. Businesses in every sector do the same, sport shouldn’t be any different

 

[Bobby Sands]

In what fucking realm is SOO a side show? It’s an absolute cash cow and in terms of the actual game it’s pretty widely accepted as the pinnacle of the sport, even more so than an international cap

We would be fools not to look at what our competitions do well and at least consider adapting it to fit our code. Businesses in every sector do the same, sport shouldn’t be any different

Sanity has presented itself.

 

[mst]

In what fucking realm is SOO a side show? It’s an absolute cash cow and in terms of the actual game it’s pretty widely accepted as the pinnacle of the sport, even more so than an international cap

No doubt its a cash cow, but it's still a sideshow in the context it is a state based competition that has no relevance to the main NRL show.

We would be fools not to look at what our competitions do well and at least consider adapting it to fit our code. Businesses in every sector do the same, sport shouldn’t be any different

Name another sport the SOO concept, being such a successful model, worked for?

[/quote]

 

[mst]

Sanity has presented itself.

I say this at work all the time, and it’s been a hallmark of all excellent workplaces I’ve been apart of.

It’s not enough to criticise if you can’t suggest an alternative direction.

People who suggest solutions are valuable, people who knock others are widely available (not scarce).

As Glengary Glenross taught us, only closers get coffee.

 

[Slim 293]

Look, the idea of a state of the union series when we already have a state based franchise model......... is fucking idiotic to say the least.

And just because it's successful in rugby league, where it's the pinnacle of the game - the world cup and Bledisloe rolled into one every year, doesn't mean it works in rugby union, just like it doesn't work in other popular football codes.

The concept where we have say NSW and QLD play each other twice a year, and then a couple of more times a year they play each other again, but they're now different NSW and QLD teams but with some of their players swapped around, and they have some players from other teams too......... or we get extra silly because the other states are feeling neglected and we have a 4 team SOU series with 4/5 of the states already involved in the main competition, but they're not the same 4 states that already compete now and the players are all swapped around just for those couple of games........


IT'S A TERRIBLE FUCKING IDEA.

 

[kiap]

^ Agreed, it doesn't add up.

We might be stuck with Origin now at least during COVID ........

But:

• An origin series will eventually: (a) devalue the Super competition with player stand downs or reduced fixtures: and/or (b) subtract Tests from the Wallabies reciprocal schedule.

• There is a cap on games per player per season. Spend them on origins and there are fewer available elsewhere.. Pro teams, who pay these origin players their annual salary, still need a viable quota of matchdays to survive.

• Union, unlike league, doesn't have to compensate for not having an international game worthy of the name.

• i.e. A big part of SOO success was being a higher standard than tests. --- But RA can play actual competitive tests.

• Origin intermittently shuffles one state's squad of players in with another. Do these disruptions build playing cohesion or set it back? Does now having 5+ Qld-NSW games per season flog a dead horse?

Meh.

 

[Adam84]

Think a pasifika option has the best potential for creating extra content within the pool we have

 

[rugboy]

I remember when origin first started in league in the 80s and at the time the rhetoric was the same, that it was a gimmick, we didn’t need it, no one would be interested etc. Some times you have to take a chance on something. I enjoyed the banter and feeling in the lead up to the Tahs Reds game recently, where the feeling between the two was evident. It took me back to the old festival of hate between the two, when rob simmons was a real QLDer not the captain of the Tahs.

This is professional sport, many players don’t get to don their state colours every week. Brining the best of QLD v best of NSW would generate that passion for those that don’t get to experience it amongst the playing group. We might not get the beetson putting one on Cronin moment but no doubt the feeling of hate will be there.

We all bemoan rugby’s lack of presence on free to air TV. This series is designed to entice the casual viewer. Clarke said they created this to get it on free to air TV. Yes it’s a rip off of league but if it gets the die hard QLD or NSW league fans watching the game because it piggy backs off league who cares. More viewers is what we need to grow the sport. These casual fans don’t currently give a toss that there are already 2 fixtures between the Tahs and Reds because they don’t watch them. Some might know but also know the Tahs have been atrocious so don’t bother watching. Two “beefed up“ teams going at each other in what is close to a Wallabies trial with added hatred is a win for the exposure it can give to the game for mine.

 

[Omar Comin']

^ This

And there's no harm in trying it. The risk/reward equation is pretty good IMO. Best case scenario is it attracts great crowds and ratings and rugby gets 2-3 big new events every year, worst case scenario is it probably attracts okay crowds and ratings for a couple of years before being abandoned. I think it's very unlikely to be a complete bust.

 

[flat_eric]

So what to you do with someone like DHP - relegate to div 2? If yes we are saying to a bunch of similar players you don't get to play in one of our showcase games because of where you are born. If no where do you play someone who has not played rugby or lived in NSW or QLD.

DHP
Born South Africa
School/Junior - western Australia
Professional Debut - WA
Professional Teams - WA, Vic, France

Then he misses out. If a player has no legitimate claim to Queensland or NSW why should they be selected to represent either of them? There have been many star players that haven't qualified for the rugby league version over the years, notably SBW.

 

[flat_eric]

There is a lot of talk in here about us ripping this concept off rugby league. Well they ripped it off Australian rules in the first place! Sometimes a good idea is just a good idea, that doesn't mean it can't be tweaked to suit our purposes and made our own over time. I think given rugby's position it's worth a shot.

 

[Braveheart81]

The RA SOO concept is a whacked out perverse attempt at what is essentially a failed attempt at a domestic comp. 7 teams! How many games will it need to even be half decent? Are we talking 2 months worth of games? Team balance won't be equitable, part of the little audience we actually have wont give a F%$k. If you cut the teams what the difference between what we have in Super Au and that?

No, they're talking about 1-3 games between NSW and Qld based on some sort of Origin concept rather than existing contracts.

People trying to add in a bunch of other teams and games is just talk and not part of the RA/broadcasters intention at least to begin with.

 

[drewprint]

Yeah I don’t think it works. Unless:

In a purely domestic competition we realign to an NRC-esque model. Brisbane Reds, Queensland Country, Sydney Waratahs, Western Sydney Somethings, Perth Force etc etc. With this set up, a SOO could work.

This of course opens up a whole new can of worms. Foremost of which, who pays.

 

[sendit]

Name another sport the SOO concept, being such a successful model, worked for?

There’s no equivalent sport where it’s even remotely financially or logistically viable besides our own code

 

[sendit]

Look, the idea of a state of the union series when we already have a state based franchise model... is fucking idiotic to say the least.

And just because it's successful in rugby league, where it's the pinnacle of the game - the world cup and Bledisloe rolled into one every year, doesn't mean it works in rugby union, just like it doesn't work in other popular football codes.

The concept where we have say NSW and QLD play each other twice a year, and then a couple of more times a year they play each other again, but they're now different NSW and QLD teams but with some of their players swapped around, and they have some players from other teams too... or we get extra silly because the other states are feeling neglected and we have a 4 team SOU series with 4/5 of the states already involved in the main competition, but they're not the same 4 states that already compete now and the players are all swapped around just for those couple of games....


IT'S A TERRIBLE FUCKING IDEA.

No it’s just a terrible fucking idea if we stay with the state based franchises, I’ve posted saying so previously. My whole argument for it is on the basis of ya going to a domestic league that goes somewhere along the same lines of the NRC. Then the Reds/Tahs become the origin franchises

 

[D-Box]

Then he misses out. If a player has no legitimate claim to Queensland or NSW why should they be selected to represent either of them? There have been many star players that haven't qualified for the rugby league version over the years, notably SBW.

And there is the biggest problem with SOO being just QLD and NSW. Exclude a bunch of players to make it proper origin and also alienated a bunch of the rugby public. OR make it a frankenmess of team wearing a QLD and NSW jersey. If that is the case let's just call the teams that not alienate people

 

[Ignoto]

Eh, for those thinking it's confusing, I think you're under-estimating how well the General Public can pick up these types of things. Looking at league, the Broncos were the only Queensland based team for awhile and that didn't cause any issues. Hell, we can change the names if you think it's that confusing.

What I would love is, if we can bring overseas players back for the series.