State of the Union (origin) discussion

[sendit]

why are some people continually trying to reinvent the wheel when we haven't even tried using the wheel first?

KISS principle people

 

[The Honey Badger]

They will have better players, that's for sure but is that going to make up for the fact that they are cobbled together at short notice?

Everything I have read points to the top 2 sides from the domestic competitions which I think is easily the best option.

If that was the case, it would be nice if the other sides went off and played 2nd division Super 8/10 Pacifica tournament, perhaps even with a reperchage pathway back to the finals in S8.

Keep all the teams playing for something, keep all the fans engaged

 

[Braveheart81]

If that was the case, it would be nice if the other sides went off and played 2nd division Super 8/10 Pacifica tournament, perhaps even with a reperchage pathway back to the finals in S8.

Keep all the teams playing for something, keep all the fans engaged

Yes. This is what Europe does. You either play European Champions Cup or the Challenge Cup which is the other half of the teams.

Likely format would only be 4 weeks long so it isn't a huge time to fill.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Yes. This is what Europe does. You either play European Champions Cup or the Challenge Cup which is the other half of the teams.

Likely format would only be 4 weeks long so it isn't a huge time to fill.

Below Super 8 there could be the Pacific Challenge Cup or something along those lines. Again hosted in a single country. Split over pools.

 

[The Honey Badger]

Below Super 8 there could be the Pacific Challenge Cup or something along those lines. Again hosted in a single country. Split over pools.

Be great if the winner of this jagged the bottom place (say 4th spot) of the finals of the S8, so potentially could go on the win S8

 

[Brumby Runner]

If there is to be a separate Cup style competition for the teams finishing lower in the respective Super Rugby comps, then surely that ends any discussion of the S8 teams being representative selections.

 

[dru]

If there is to be a separate Cup style competition for the teams finishing lower in the respective Super Rugby comps, then surely that ends any discussion of the S8 teams being representative selections.

WHy?

Each country sets it's own selection criteria for the Super 8. Shouldn't be any probs with that.

If Aus decides the top two teams fine. If Aus decides two players in two rep teams, fine. And I don't have an issue with the later, in fact it offers some real opportunities.

 

[liquor box]

why are some people continually trying to reinvent the wheel when we haven't even tried using the wheel first?

KISS principle people

State of origin is based on reinventing the wheel, Origin indicates birthplace, but this has no relevance to who you play for due to the multiple options available that allow a player to select who they want to play with.

 

[The Honey Badger]

WHy?

Each country sets it's own selection criteria for the Super 8. Shouldn't be any probs with that.

If Aus decides the top two teams fine. If Aus decides two players in two rep teams, fine. And I don't have an issue with the later, in fact it offers some real opportunities.

It just makes sense that SOU is actually a S8 game , and they play this game first and then go on to play the others in the pool.

Every casual rugby fan in Australia should be aware of the first game and then the short (world class) tournament that follows

 

[kiap]

It just makes sense that SOU is actually a S8 game , and they play this game first and then go on to play the others in the pool.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Zero.

 

[dru]

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Zero.

I think it does.

 

[kiap]

I think it does.

A trial/scratch SOO team first up will be eaten alive. No lead up, no prep, and a parachuted-in coach.

This is a more complex caper than 5 tackles + kick. If you play Origin, the Origin has to be the lead up.

The whole point of Origin is to hype up the DOMESTIC tv and crowd.

What, you gonna play this SOO game in a tournament in Yokohama now?

Insist both oz teams are on the same side of the draw + get the opening game?

Divvy up the rights to parcel out to sanzaar?

Madness.

 

[dru]

A trial/scratch SOO team first up will be eaten alive. No lead up, no prep, and a parachuted-in coach. This is a more complex caper than 5 tackles + kick.

The whole point of origin is to hype up the DOMESTIC tv and crowd.

What, you gonna play this in a tournament in Yokohama now?

Insist both oz teams are on the same side of the draw + get the opening game?

Madness.

I would think that the SOU teams would form the wider WB training squad and be prepared (more for internationals) within the various training squads during the year. I'd prefer the teams to be called Green and Gold but the marketing means it will be NSW and Qld. Don't care, but it is SOU not SOO.

I'm not worried whether the first game is in or out of S8b but I do like the idea of them continuing through S8 giving the broader WB squad the opportunity to build connections and vet to consider more deeply WB strategy and game play intentions.

You only need 3 rounds in knock out to take S8 through to the final round. They were talking 4 rounds so the first 2 to determine who goes to knock out. And no I don't mind Green and Gold against each other in the pre knock out. But a pre game SOU out of S8 would work too.

And no I don't mind the S8 comp being in Yokohama, though I would imagine, NZ, Aus to start with given Covid and that RSA would want it once available.

Why so worked up?

OTOH, if this were to be a strict SOO, as some "purists" are suggesting, you lose the opportunity to use it as a qualifying selection for the WBs and it becomes a rather pointless marketing copy of League. Which is OK but IMO not as good.

It also removes the issue with Kiwis concern over talent concentration without impacting our requirement for domestic content and the building of home support in a domestic season.

So in the absence of hysteria, sarcasm and emotion, yes it works for me. Happy that you don't agree, but I like it.

 

[kiap]

I don't mind the S8 comp being in Yokohama

So your State of Origin revenue gets folded into Sanzaar, and you get 25% of the TV and f**k all gate from your "pinnacle" domestic game (not in Australia).

Pure Genius, mate.

 

[Brumby Runner]

WHy?

Each country sets it's own selection criteria for the Super 8. Shouldn't be any probs with that.

If Aus decides the top two teams fine. If Aus decides two players in two rep teams, fine. And I don't have an issue with the later, in fact it offers some real opportunities.

Dru, certainly it could work as you describe, but it seems more likely to me that the lower ranked teams would be loathe to release players while they remain in a current competition.

 

[sendit]

State of origin is based on reinventing the wheel, Origin indicates birthplace, but this has no relevance to who you play for due to the multiple options available that allow a player to select who they want to play with.

Mmm id very much argue that it does have relevance, it’s still one of the main criteria but I guess my original point was at least origins changes over the years were based on trial and error with careful consideration. Some people are advocating for quite radical changes to a winning formula for no reason apart for a gut feeling same with this champions league concept. Now while it’s a proven winning formula in another code, it’s still a bloody decent starting point, they’ve been working on eligibility criteria for decades now and it’s pretty on the money, I’d change it a tad to reflect that there’s a decent amount of players that arrive a bit later from overseas and maybe the father rule but that’s about it. Same with champions league, it’s a know quantity, people understand what’s going on why change it from club teams to representative sides? Especially if the other countries send club sides, we’re either going to smash them and look like douches for creating an uneven playing field or they’ll beat us and we’ll look like shit that a stacked side can’t even manage to win against a club team

Like I said, why reinvent the wheel when we haven’t even tried using the wheel first

 

[The Honey Badger]

A trial/scratch SOO team first up will be eaten alive. No lead up, no prep, and a parachuted-in coach.

This is a more complex caper than 5 tackles + kick. If you play Origin, the Origin has to be the lead up.

The whole point of Origin is to hype up the DOMESTIC tv and crowd.

What, you gonna play this SOO game in a tournament in Yokohama now?

Insist both oz teams are on the same side of the draw + get the opening game?

Divvy up the rights to parcel out to sanzaar?

Madness.

Ok, thats a fair point.

So they play a 1 off Non S8 game before S8 - then go and take part in S8

If they happen to meet again in the final of the S8 - then the SOU trophy is up for grabs again

 

[Braveheart81]

I'm unsure why any of the participating countries in the S8 would be happy with different criteria for the entrants. It seems to me that everyone would want an even playing field which would mean the top 2 teams from the respective domestic competitions.

If we're intending on having a blockbuster State of the Union game each season as a one off between NSW and Queensland then we wouldn't want to schedule that to be played overseas most years and not get 100% of the broadcasting rights?

 

[dru]

I'm unsure why any of the participating countries in the S8 would be happy with different criteria for the entrants. It seems to me that everyone would want an even playing field which would mean the top 2 teams from the respective domestic competitions.

If we're intending on having a blockbuster State of the Union game each season as a one off between NSW and Queensland then we wouldn't want to schedule that to be played overseas most years and not get 100% of the broadcasting rights?

When you are coming from different competitions there is no even playing field unless all competitions have the same level of quality and intensity. There is no competition that would match the Kiwi Super. If it was to be seen as unfair this would be surely from the Kiwis and they are the ones requesting talent concentration.

 

[Braveheart81]

When you are coming from different competitions there is no even playing field unless all competitions have the same level of quality and intensity. There is no competition that would match the Kiwi Super. If it was to be seen as unfair this would be surely from the Kiwis and they are the ones requesting talent concentration.

The even playing field is that it is competition for winners of their domestic competitions to effectively determine a champion of champions. Exactly the same as the European Champions Cup.

I highly doubt any of the participants would be keen on some entrants being teams created just for the competition and I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else that Australia's intention would be the State of the Union teams would be the entrants.