SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) Trials: QLD Reds v Western Force, Ballymore, 3/2/24 @ 3:00pm AEST

[Brumby Runner]

Trial results do not matter. Never have, never will.

That has always been the case Wilson, but this year most sides are going in with close to their top side at the start. I would start to feel uneasy if the top side was being beaten even in trials. Not so much a comment on the Reds who only went down by a point, but not a good sign say for the RA Tahs who seem to have had the cleaners put through them by the Rebels.

 

[Wilson]

Few more thoughts from the ground yesterday:

- Aside from a good late play Creighton was disappointing. He'll likely get more time next week and hopefully turns it around, but I'd be leaning to Lynagh for his control for round 1.
- Aubrey doesn't really look to have progressed from last year, I know I've said it before but I think he really needs a stint in 7s or failing that a pro(ish) comp at a level between super and club - NPC in the off season or maybe MLR/Japan.
- Along with Tate, Werchon looked very good in his brief stint. Didn't see as much from Kalani but he was great against Saitama last year. Very happy with our options at 9.
- Scrum was an absolute monster, particularly once Hodgman came on, need to see it against more sides to really know, but given it was a problem area for much of last year it's comforting to see that improvement.
- Lineout went well, particularly considering we were running a two hookers on the bench that are no higher than 4th string and likely won't get many minutes there this season. I don't remember the Force getting too much in the way of clean ball from theirs either, but given there were no screens at Ballymore I didn't have the best view of all of them.
- Petaia was a bit rusty but still had plenty to show - that 50/22 was fantastic. That said I still think Campbell was the better option at 15 and having him there as a playmaking option might have helped Creighton find his feet early on. Off the back of this game I'd be looking at a back 3 with Flook and Petaia on the wings and Campbell at fullback. Vunivalu could definitely push his way in given his attributes, but he was way too inaccurate yesterday.
- I thought Paisami was running with aggression, force and fair bit of sting. Defence needs work, but new coaches and new systems will require that and he looks absolutely up for it this year. I'd be leaning towards him at 13 with O'Connor coming in at 12 assuming he's good for game one (and to help out our young 10s). If not it does become a bit of a toss up between Henry at 12 or sliding Pasisami and Flook in one.
- New stand is a winner and the vibes from the crowd were great, even in uncomfortably hot conditions. Can't wait for them to get the eastern stand redone. Most of our group are already talking about getting back in March for the Super W.


Finally, it was fantastic to see Vest take the field again after his injury last year. Love that Kiss gave him the captaincy for the end of the game too.

 

[wamberal99]

Anything to watch on STAN?

 

[liquor box]

Trial results do not matter. Never have, never will.

I am sure the Force fans will think this is being a sore loser.

A good win with silky smooth skills on display in trail does not mean you will be great for the season, and equally a bad trial does not mean it will be a bad season but I think everyone from coaches, players and fans would feel a lot more positive for the upcoming season if it was a great win.

 

[Wilson]

That has always been the case Wilson, but this year most sides are going in with close to their top side at the start. I would start to feel uneasy if the top side was being beaten even in trials. Not so much a comment on the Reds who only went down by a point, but not a good sign say for the RA Tahs who seem to have had the cleaners put through them by the Rebels.

Nope, still doesn't matter. This game was played as three 30 minute with almost full squads used and unlimited interchange. The decision each coach makes are not as motivated by result as they are season preparation and that flows through to on field - some teams will take the 3 in trials others intentionally avoid it, a dominate front row might be pulled early to protect them, rather than pressing the advantage, etc. What's important is how the players play and getting time into them as a team to prepare for the season.

As far as the Rebels v tahs game goes I can't speak to it as I haven't seen it, but if I was going to I'd probably talk about it in the relevant thread, not this one.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Nope, still doesn't matter. This game was played as three 30 minute with almost full squads used and unlimited interchange. The decision each coach makes are not as motivated by result as they are season preparation and that flows through to on field - some teams will take the 3 in trials others intentionally avoid it, a dominate front row might be pulled early to protect them, rather than pressing the advantage, etc. What's important is how the players play and getting time into them as a team to prepare for the season.

As far as the Rebels v tahs game goes I can't speak to it as I haven't seen it, but if I was going to I'd probably talk about it in the relevant thread, not this one.

It was a comment in contrast to your black and white statement that trial results don't matter. A close result certainly can be immaterial, where the important aspects, as you say, are that the coaches' structures are being implemented etc. and it might just be a dropped ball here or there that swings the result in one team's favour over the other. But a large loss I would be certain is of great concern to the coaching staff, and in no way would be regarded as of no consequence just because it was a trial game.

 

[dru]

Nope, still doesn't matter. This game was played as three 30 minute with almost full squads used and unlimited interchange. The decision each coach makes are not as motivated by result as they are season preparation and that flows through to on field - some teams will take the 3 in trials others intentionally avoid it, a dominate front row might be pulled early to protect them, rather than pressing the advantage, etc. What's important is how the players play and getting time into them as a team to prepare for the season.

As far as the Rebels v tahs game goes I can't speak to it as I haven't seen it, but if I was going to I'd probably talk about it in the relevant thread, not this one.

Agreed a trial is a trial. It's about what the coaching wants out of it. That said, I'd take a guess that the Force had in mind building a winning mindset - and they very much implemented it. They are entitled to kudos.

 

[Wilson]

It was a comment in contrast to your black and white statement that trial results don't matter. A close result certainly can be immaterial, where the important aspects, as you say, are that the coaches' structures are being implemented etc. and it might just be a dropped ball here or there that swings the result in one team's favour over the other. But a large loss I would be certain is of great concern to the coaching staff, and in no way would be regarded as of no consequence just because it was a trial game.

The result itself is of no consequence, what matters is the how the team and individuals played and how well the systems are working. In a proper season game a result might be relatively indicative of that but that's not the case for a trial. For example a blow out can easily happen in the final 20 minutes with 3rd string sides against each other. Likewise a very strong lead cold be run down at that stage as well, particularly if the leading team is now putting minutes into fringe players. There is no way I could contextualize a result like that in another trial I haven't seen.

The only time I can remember seeing a result from a trial as being particularly troubling was the Rebels failing to score a point when the Drua put 20 or 30 on them last year, but even then that's not the result so much as it is a measure of an attack not delivering. That game was also played in pretty dire conditions though, so it's taken with a very large grain of salt.

 

[TSR]

You also don’t know what training loads players have been under. I know little if S&C best practice but I’ve heard enough stories in the past to know players who play flat are sometimes coming off high training loads and struggle as a result. Not saying this is a factor here - I have no idea - but I know it has been in the past.

Creighton didn’t have a great game - but then neither did the backrow, I thought McDermott was below par, Paisami, Uru & Petaia all hit and miss IMO, Flook okay without being great, Vunivalu still getting his positioning wrong and looking pretty casual about the whole thing. I was quick to jump on the HMP bandwagon yesterday but, on reflection, I’m going to cut Creighton some slack - at least for a week.

 

[Wilson]

Agreed a trial is a trial. It's about what the coaching wants out of it. That said, I'd take a guess that the Force had in mind building a winning mindset - and they very much implemented it. That are entitled to kudos.

To be clear I'm not trying to discount the Force's performance. I thought there were plenty of positives for them to take way from that game, probably headlined by Harry Potter showing well at exactly the time they need a winger. Some things to worry about too, particularly around the set piece. I simply don't see any point in discussing results from trials, particularly not when the actual rugby is there to discuss.

 

[TSR]

It was a comment in contrast to your black and white statement that trial results don't matter. A close result certainly can be immaterial, where the important aspects, as you say, are that the coaches' structures are being implemented etc. and it might just be a dropped ball here or there that swings the result in one team's favour over the other. But a large loss I would be certain is of great concern to the coaching staff, and in no way would be regarded as of no consequence just because it was a trial game.

I can remember a few years ago (can’t remember the exact year) when the Reds had two good wins in trials. Got to the regular season and the results went South. I still always feel a bit better when my team wins, but I really don’t think you can read much at all into trials, regardless of the score.

 

[Adam84]

Certain parts of trial matches certainly matter at the player level, individual performances and set piece, but the end score doesn’t really matter much.

Next week’s results matter more

 

[Oracle83]

I thought Stewart for the Force in the first 20 was fabulous.

Wasn't sure of our (Red) locks. Unusual to see Uru almost acting as a link man in the traffic, just taking opportunity of an offload when standing?

Creighton is going to need another chance to show his wares, a little short on occasion today. Paisami laid a solid claim to be starting. Flook blew away some cobwebs. I thought Jock looked decent when he came on. Scrum good, lineout needs work. Rucks need more.

Just how many chances does he get? He’s an outside back not a playmaker for mine totally predictable with ball in hand.

 

[Shiggins]

Agreed

They love mentioning any force player who is from NSW or Qld lol

 

[Shiggins]

Certain parts of trial matches certainly matter at the player level, individual performances and set piece, but the end score doesn’t really matter much.

Next week’s results matter more

It's big for the force. They closed out a game away from home which goes a long way for confidence.

 

[dru]

Just how many chances does he get? He’s an outside back not a playmaker for mine totally predictable with ball in hand.

Stewart or Creighton?

 

[TSR]

It's big for the force. They closed out a game away from home which goes a long way for confidence.

Regardless of it being a trial both teams and both coaching groups would have loved to start off with a win. The Force were obviously running their own 2nd & 3rd tier players too. Congrats to them for getting it done.

 

[dru]

It's big for the force. They closed out a game away from home which goes a long way for confidence.

I reckon I'd go further than that, from a Force perspective anyway. It's the first 30 that really stands out as at Super level. It was a well won 30 for Force. It's not going to bother Reds at all who also took away what they wanted, but I'd be happy as a Force fan. Fabulous start to the season.

 

[Yoda]

Regardless of it being a trial both teams and both coaching groups would have loved to start off with a win. The Force were obviously running their own 2nd & 3rd tier players too. Congrats to them for getting it done.

Exactly… trial or no trial… you still want to win..no player worth his salt wants to lose.

 

[Coleman Rees]

I was one of 3.5-4000 (crowd guess from Reg and I) there yesterday. Reds to struggle this year.