Springboks vs Wallabies @ Newlands 27/9/2014

[Braveheart81]

To'omua was poor on Saturday night and his form in the Rugby Championship has been average but he's had some good tests this year and was excellent last year.

He's still the first choice 12 in my books. Beale had a 'mare off the bench so he didn't improve his chances.

Godwin could certainly get a crack soon.

Whatever happens, no one has nailed down the 12 jersey in 2014 and with the RWC now less than a year away, someone playing a couple of cracking tests in a row could really boost their chances massively to have first shot at 12 for the next year.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Weren't we ahead when Beale came on? Didn't he simply need to not fuck up?

 

[something]

rewatching the first half now, i am so impressed by Houggard. Sweet delivery every time but more importantly, he seems like a player who really cares - especially on those cover tackles on Tomane & AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s trys. Players like that are the difference between tier 1 teams and the rest. And shit he is a fast motherfucker

 

[whatty]

r i am so impressed by Houggard. Sweet delivery every time

Maybe so but he is still very slow from the base. I hope they start Reinach this weekend.

MOTM? that was a strange one??

 

[chasmac]

I would go with Bob's idea;
9 Phipps
10 Foley
12 TK
13 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Back 3 Tomane, Beale, Izzy

If Beale runs crossfield he will go into touch or if he goes the other way he will link up with Hooper / Fardy / Slipper / Higgers.

This selection would change the structure as TK would be running holes and not ballplaying out the back. The focal point for the attack would be in the 10-12 channel which means the loosies better be on their game.

 

[kiap]

I would go with Bob's idea;
9 Phipps
10 Foley
12 TK
13 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Back 3 Tomane, Beale, Izzy

If Beale runs crossfield he will go into touch or if he goes the other way he will link up with Hooper / Fardy / Slipper / Higgers.

This selection would change the structure as TK would be running holes and not ballplaying out the back. The focal point for the attack would be in the 10-12 channel which means the loosies better be on their game.

With 5 days left to kick-off it's hard to see this happening. Has the full squad even arrived yet? How many training sessions do they get? 3-4?

I reckon they make the necessary changes for injuries, etc., and then back their game plan and look to improve their execution of it.

 

[Braveheart81]

The whole Bob Dwyer put Kuridrani at 12 thought really only works if you had a clean slate and an offseason to make it happen.

There's never enough lead up to be able to do it effectively at test level. You could start the Rugby Championship next year and say that TK is being moved to 12 for the RWC and we're going to use the 6 Rugby Championship matches to make it work but geez it's a risk and I'm not convinced it would be acceptable to the fans.

 

[BDA]

Whatever happens, no one has nailed down the 12 jersey in 2014 and with the RWC now less than a year away, someone playing a couple of cracking tests in a row could really boost their chances massively to have first shot at 12 for the next year.

Braveheart I'm going to have to disagree with you here. To'omua nailed down the 12 jersey in 2013, so much so that despite being one of the form 10s in Super rugby, McKenzie made it clear that he would remain at 12. This season he's a few really good performances, and a few poor performances, imo doing enough to retain his jersey.

I think we can safely say at this point that Link has chosen To'omua as his first choice inside centre for the RWC. He wants a player that can distribute and direct play, but also run the ball. If we look at the teams that we'll come up against at the RWC (Wales/England) they are side that rely on big centre pairing to break/bench the line. We'll need a centre pair that is rock solid on defence. To'omua ticks all the boxes and has the runs on the board. He'd have to have a few absolute shockers to loses his spot from here.

 

[BDA]

I would go with Bob's idea;
9 Phipps
10 Foley
12 TK
13 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Back 3 Tomane, Beale, Izzy

Classic Australian approach, a bloke has his best game at 13 so lets move him to 12 where he barely ever plays. FFS

 

[Tahspark]

To'omua was poor on Saturday night and his form in the Rugby Championship has been average but he's had some good tests this year and was excellent last year.

He's still the first choice 12 in my books. Beale had a 'mare off the bench so he didn't improve his chances.

Godwin could certainly get a crack soon.

Whatever happens, no one has nailed down the 12 jersey in 2014 and with the RWC now less than a year away, someone playing a couple of cracking tests in a row could really boost their chances massively to have first shot at 12 for the next year.

I like To'omua, especially at Super level, but his kicking against the Boks was very substandard.

IMO he was the poor link in the run on backline given his default option to kick given that when we kept the ball in hand we were largely effective. However, he must been under instruction to kick but obviously Link didn't instruct him to execute so poorly.

I'd like to see Horne given another shot at #12 before we start blooding someone like Godwin. He would certainly suit the game plan of keeping the ball in hand and his direct running would complement Kuridrani's perfectly. We'd then be left with Phipps/Foley to do the tactical kicking but they certainly couldn't botch the job like To'omua unfortunately did and has been doing. To'omua to come from the bench in lieu of Beale who seems to be regressing at test level.

EDIT: To'omua to the bench when he's uninjured.

 

[barbarian]

I just watched the game again (the benefits of unemployment )

I'm sorry, but I just don't see why people are frothing over Beale. He had nothing to do with the 3 Bok tries in the last five minutes. He coughed the ball up once at a ruck, but in reality plenty of blokes made mistakes in those closing minutes.

He was pretty anonymous actually, had about the same impact as James Hanson.

 

[Braveheart81]

I just watched the game again (the benefits of unemployment )

I'm sorry, but I just don't see why people are frothing over Beale. He had nothing to do with the 3 Bok tries in the last five minutes. He coughed the ball up once at a ruck, but in reality plenty of blokes made mistakes in those closing minutes.

He was pretty anonymous actually, had about the same impact as James Hanson.

He actually defended well (compared to what he has produced this season).

He did turn the ball over a couple of times (seems to be credited with one in the ESPNscrum stats).

I think it's mostly because Kafer focused on him a fair bit in commentary. Otherwise he would have been fairly anonymous like most of our other bench players.

 

[chasmac]

Classic Australian approach, a bloke has his best game at 13 so lets move him to 12 where he barely ever plays. FFS

Ok fair point.

Given To'omua is out. Who would you pick in the backline?

I previously thought that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) had done enough in 13 for him to lock up the position. I do agree that you cannot simply shift players around hence the third part of my post which raises the concept of TK being different to To'omua.

I think EM will pick the Tahs 9, 10, 12 and then implement a Wallaby gameplan. Will this work or will we be having the same debrief this time next week? I think the latter.

If all players were available I would love to see the following between now and the RWC;

9 Genia
10 Cooper
12 To'omua
13 Kuridrani
11 Speight
14 JOC (James O'Connor) / AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/ Beale (whoever is the fastest!)
15 Folou
21 Phipps
22 JOC (James O'Connor) / AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) / Beale ( next fastest)
23 Foley

Unlucky would be Tomane, White, Lilo. Slowest of JOC (James O'Connor) / AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) / Beale.

 

[chasmac]

I just watched the game again (the benefits of unemployment )

I'm sorry, but I just don't see why people are frothing over Beale. He had nothing to do with the 3 Bok tries in the last five minutes. He coughed the ball up once at a ruck, but in reality plenty of blokes made mistakes in those closing minutes.

He was pretty anonymous actually, had about the same impact as James Hanson.

I think what viewers were looking for was a big hit or a big cleanout or any other momentum swinging defensive play. As he is not that type of player then it was always going to be unlikely.
I would have preferred to see the same from Higgenbottom but we didn't get that either.

 

[BDA]

9 Genia
10 Cooper
12 To'omua
13 Kuridrani
11 Speight
14 JOC (James O'Connor) / AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/ Beale (whoever is the fastest!)
15 Folau
21 Phipps
22 JOC (James O'Connor) / AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) / Beale ( next fastest)
23 Foley

I pretty much agree with those backline selections.

As for this weekend, Beale will be named at inside centre. Honestly as much as I hate to say it his partnership with Foley is probably the best way to go on short notice. The Pumas aren't renowned for their midfield attack so defence shouldn't be a major problem and Beale and Foley should be able to make a few breaks in the Puma defence.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

To'omua had nothing. Correction, has nothing.
His kicking is deplorable, missing touch and always finding a player on the full.
He brings nothing to the attack as far as I can see.
Poor old Kurtley comes on under extreme pressure because of the mess To'omua has left him and has to immediately pull rabbits out of his hat to change the game.
Beale was 5/8 when White was 1/2 back so never got the benefit of Phipp's superior service or combination with Foley, as he did for the Tah's.

What is it with Wallaby 12 jersey? Why do we keep picking plodders?
I still blame McCabe's limitations for Quade's bad rap at the 2011 RWC.
And now, with To'omua's lack of inspiration at 12, we are looking at a poor backline plan and blaming everyone and anyone but him.
Get rid of him.

And replace him with who? It's fair enough to be critical of the incumbent, but we still have to find someone else to play there.

 

[Brumbieman]

Same team.

FFS, how are we supposed to build that team confidence and trust in each other that is crucial to winning, if the team changes every week?!

Unless injury enforced, it should stay the same. We were a dropped ball/aimless grubber/stupid penalty away from toppling the Jaarpies at Newlands.

Select the same team, and work on the issues that cost us, don't just throw everything out and start again.

 

[I like to watch]

To'omua had nothing. Correction, has nothing.
His kicking is deplorable, missing touch and always finding a player on the full.
He brings nothing to the attack as far as I can see.
Poor old Kurtley comes on under extreme pressure because of the mess To'omua has left him and has to immediately pull rabbits out of his hat to change the game.
Beale was 5/8 when White was 1/2 back so never got the benefit of Phipp's superior service or combination with Foley, as he did for the Tah's.

What is it with Wallaby 12 jersey? Why do we keep picking plodders?
I still blame McCabe's limitations for Quade's bad rap at the 2011 RWC.
And now, with To'omua's lack of inspiration at 12, we are looking at a poor backline plan and blaming everyone and anyone but him.
Get rid of him.

Not much I agree with this.
To'omua did not play well in his last game,but you can't ignore his previous form,which varied between solid & good.
Poor old Kurtley?
You do realise they were winning when he came on?
Blame Quade for his poor form,or possibly the nine players inside him for poor quality/back foot ball.Don't blame his runners unless they are dropping balls that they should be catching.
I think blame is being attached to players that were on the field when they capitulated.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Same team.

FFS, how are we supposed to build that team confidence and trust in each other that is crucial to winning, if the team changes every week?!

Unless injury enforced, it should stay the same. We were a dropped ball/aimless grubber/stupid penalty away from toppling the Jaarpies at Newlands.

Select the same team, and work on the issues that cost us, don't just throw everything out and start again.

I'd advocate potential bench changes. But then again we are limited to who we could replace them with and some will be starting this week so it may leave no changes to be able to be made.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Injuries aside, there isn't a lot I'd change about the starting line up. We're playing just about the best XV we have in terms of who is available. For about 70 minutes these guys worked like Trojans and but for a small number of key moments could and should have won. The issue was the bench in the end: theirs was great, ours was mediocre. The Boks had some experienced, skilful and powerful players to come on and at least maintain the same standards. Unfortunately in our case the standards dropped and that's what will need to be addressed.

We've got an issue at eight and potentially at 12 as well. Some tough selection decisions this week I think.