Springboks v Wallabies - Sunday 2 October 1am AEST - Loftus Versfeld

[waiopehu oldboy]

Bokke have released de Allende, Mvovo & Marx to their Currie Cup teams & have declared Pat Lambie fit.

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/boks-release-de-allende-mvovo-and-marx/

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/lambie-fit-to-face-australia/

Mvovo & de Allende I understand but I feel a bit sorry for Marx: he was the form SA hooker in Super Rugby but gets ignored until the seventh Test of the year in which he gets ~25 minutes with his team copping a hiding then he gets dropped. Wouldn't blame the guy if he said "fuck you, I'm outta here".

 

[terry j]

Fuck's sake, this has been pissing me off for a while, and Lindommer and I were discussing it on the weekend:

Please STOP QUOTING AN ENTIRE FUCKING ESSAY AND SAYING "Yeah mate I agree".

It fucks up my flow, particularly on a mobile device (for which, I'll note, we don't have a decent theme mods, or at least I haven't been told how to activate it). I suppose others don't like it, but let's worry about me.

Like the post (its the button with the thumb on it - not the one you shove up your arse), and refer to the user by name to give them an alert that you're lubed up and ready to go if they need a bit of the reverse swedish milkmaid for all their hard work.

Alternatively, hit the quote button, then chop out a crapload of the text between the quotation markers to get your message across.

I'm quoting the lot to ram it home again. And because I can only give it one thumbs up when it needs ten.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Yep - thanks FF (Folau Fainga'a). Pretty clear when you see the comparative stats why a lot of us see Timani, Houston and Holloway as natural No 8s physique-wise. Just needs the coaches to now see what we all see and give those players their chances in the spot.

 

[Hawko]

Yep - thanks FF (Folau Fainga'a). Pretty clear when you see the comparative stats why a lot of us see Timani, Houston and Holloway as natural No 8s physique-wise. Just needs the coaches to now see what we all see and give those players their chances in the spot.

Absolutely amazing how people can say Kieran Read is the best no. 8 in the world! The man is not tall enough and not heavy enough to be world class like Houston and Timani are. No wonder NZ are such a dreck rugby team.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Although I'm not Braveheart, I'll answer regardlesss.

I'd say he's the best coach we've had since Eddie Jones, which isn't saying much, considering the dross we've had since then. I'd say he's a better coach than Jones was then, but Jones is better now. He's by far the best current candidate.

His win-loss record doesn't reflect that. To understand why, we need to look at reasons. First there was an emergency NH tour, where he took over the team mid-season under unprecedented circumstances. Then, this year, we had the misfortune to strike an England team who were simply better than us. On form only Genia would make that England back division, and their forwards aren't too shabby either. They deserve to be #2 in the world, and will give the AIGs a run at home.

Of course, there are people who will always conflate 'reasons' with 'excuses'. You can't grind an axe with a reason.

Groucho
I agree that Chek is the best available and by far...

As for England just being better than us I say, we smoked them at RWC when Chek was coach. He was still coach and we got smoked by 3 nil this year. I don't think we can say oh well they were just better than us,

I probably look for more detailed reasons within the group including ALL the coaching staff.

All coaches are measured by their win/loss ratios. Hopefully Cheks will improve but I still see selections the key and what flows from within the group

I appreciate your reply.

PS - agree re Genia

 

[Brumby Runner]

Absolutely amazing how people can say Kieran Read is the best no. 8 in the world! The man is not tall enough and not heavy enough to be world class like Houston and Timani are. No wonder NZ are such a dreck rugby team.

Ten times over for each of Poey and McMahon unfortunately. Now Read is at the margins for each of height and weight, but neither of ours makes the bar in one or both of the metrics. Both great players, mind, but probably not No 8s in the classic mold.

 

[emuarse]

Fuck's sake, this has been pissing me off for a while, and Lindommer and I were discussing it on the weekend:

Please STOP QUOTING AN ENTIRE FUCKING ESSAY AND SAYING "Yeah mate I agree".

It fucks up my flow, particularly on a mobile device (for which, I'll note, we don't have a decent theme mods, or at least I haven't been told how to activate it). I suppose others don't like it, but let's worry about me.

Like the post (its the button with the thumb on it - not the one you shove up your arse), and refer to the user by name to give them an alert that you're lubed up and ready to go if they need a bit of the reverse swedish milkmaid for all their hard work.

Alternatively, hit the quote button, then chop out a crapload of the text between the quotation markers to get your message across.

Yeah mate I agree

 

[hammertimethere]

I like Timani but I don't see him as a long term starting 8 for the wallabies. Holloway, Houston etc. all have more natural skills for the running, linking and lineout roles.

Where I do think Timani has potential (if he can work on his lineout skills) is as a finisher forward because he effectively covers 4,5,6 and 8 and can be absolutely brutally physical in bursts when he chooses to.

 

[Scrubber2050]

I like Timani but I don't see him as a long term starting 8 for the wallabies. Holloway, Houston etc. all have more natural skills for the running, linking and lineout roles.

Where I do think Timani has potential (if he can work on his lineout skills) is as a finisher forward because he effectively covers 4,5,6 and 8 and can be absolutely brutally physical in bursts when he chooses to.

I am not convinced about Timani at 8 long term as yet.

I would start the bloke the next couple of weeks and IF he is up to it great - problem solved.

If he is not then back to the drawing board for a better alternative.

 

[Joe Blow]

It is going to be tough at altitude so maybe both these blokes get a half at 8. Cheika just needs to decide who to start with. The Boks seem to be in a little disarray right now so it's a very good opportunity to win at Loftus for the first time. Finishers will be all important.

 

[A mutterer]

when he chooses to.

ah but that's the trick isnt it? he had a chance last game and didnt really make the most of it and just reinforces the impression of laziness at times.

 

[Micheal]

ah but that's the trick isnt it? he had a chance last game and didnt really make the most of it and just reinforces the impression of laziness at times.

You see - this I didn't take away from the game.

Rewatching it now - he comes on in the 67th minute, and makes two tackles immediately. Seems to be very intent on getting involved.

70th minute now and hes been involved in almost everything. We've had a scrum and two lineouts at this stage so there also hasn't been a huge amount of time to do so.

Another lineout now. The TMO is now checking a possible try from Argentina. Argentina have scored and converted.

He makes another tackle. Another lineout. Decent hit up in the midfield making a solid 3 or so metres after contact as he gets over the advantage line. Reece Hodge takes a penalty and hits it.

Involved in another tackle - wouldn't say he made it before immediately making another one.

(At this stage I'm confused as ESPN have credited him with 2 tackles. Do they only count tackles where you are the only defender making contact? How do the statisticians define a tackle?)

Another scrum. And another.

Another tackle.

Game over.

So by my reckoning:

12 minutes on the field - 1 conversion, 3 scrums, 3 lineouts and a penalty kick in that time. Not a lot of ball in play.
5 tackles (1 every 2.4 minutes) and another "half tackle" where the guy kind of bounced off him in contact and was cleaned up by someone else.
1 hit up for ~3m gain over advantage line.

Not a bad effort. Certainly not 'lazy' with his limited opportunities.

 

[Braveheart81]

Timani certainly didn't do badly in his short spell and clearly put in heaps of effort.

The comparison with McMahon was still pretty stark though. He had some very impactful moments and if you were using that as part of your criteria for who was going to replace Pocock, McMahon comes out on top.

The fact that McMahon has a bunch more test experience is also likely to work in his favour.

 

[Twoilms]

Given Chek seems to be shying away from competing too heavily at the breakdown (in the last two games anyway), could we not do something like:

Simmo, Coleman
Hoops, Timani, McMahon

Bench: Arnold + Mumm/Fardy

I played on the wing as a kid so i confess to some ignorance as to precisely what a number 6 brings but seems like the above combo presents us with good ruck involvement, enough lineout options, high workrate and some youthful exuberance.

Fardy seems old and penalty prone and Mumm is eternally average.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think you can guarantee that the starting 6 will be a strong lineout option and will either be Mumm or Fardy.

 

[Scrubber2050]

I think you can guarantee that the starting 6 will be a strong lineout option and will either be Mumm or Fardy.

I like the idea of Fardy, even though he leaks some penalties, he brings some mongrel to the pack

 

[wamberal]

I think you can guarantee that the starting 6 will be a strong lineout option and will either be Mumm or Fardy.

Against the Bokke at altitude? We can bank on lots and lots of lineouts. We had better have the strongest possible linout.

 

[Brumby Runner]

On the topic of kicking for touch, does anyone know if Hodge has had experience playing and kicking on the high veldt? Will he know to take some distance off kicks for fear of putting the pill over the dead ball line?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I like the fact that Hodge has a such a big boot and will be a threat at altitude. It's been a while since we've had a guy who can relieve the pressure with a clearing or penalty kick when the need arises. If nothing else it keeps the Bokke honest if it becomes a territorial game.

 

[Braveheart81]

They have spent the week in Jo'burg so are training at altitude.