Springboks v Wallabies, Newlands, September 28 2013

[Scrubber2050]

I hope so as well, but concern is for work around the field. That was probably McKenzie's only concern. Probably why Scott Sio got the flick. Hopefully Robbo is fit enough for test rugby as we cannot afford the games or time for anybody to become fit now. He has to be ready to go.

The bloke IS a champion and need to step back up to where he was a couple of years ago. Look for a big game

 

[cyclopath]

I never said that. I actually said in the post you quoted that I thought they had clearly changed even when Australia wasn't involved.

Having said that, our scrum has clearly disintegrated whereas the other nations have merely struggled a bit to adapt it would seem.

You may well be right - based on you seeing him towelling up some guy in a Shute shield final using laws that none of the test nations have been using for weeks I will have to take your word for it.

I hope you are. But I just dot see him being the cure all.



We will see in a couple weeks if Ben R gets a run.

Eastwood didn't towel up Syd Uni in the GF, but it is hard to apportion kudos points or demerits to one out of eight, and Uni had a few pros in there.
As I said earlier, I wonder if he will do better under the new laws than old. Who knows.

 

[gel]

Eastwood didn't towel up Syd Uni in the GF, but it is hard to apportion kudos points or demerits to one out of eight, and Uni had a few pros in there.
As I said earlier, I wonder if he will do better under the new laws than old. Who knows.

That was kinda my point: I am unsure how some on here can be so certain he will solve our scrum woes. I am unconvinced but its definitely going to be interesting to find out.

 

[Scrubber2050]

gel - plenty of posters agree and call for his return. I, for one look forward to a great scrummaging perormance and him doing heaps around the field.
Time will reveal all i suppose.

 

[cyclopath]

That was kinda my point: I am unsure how some on here can be so certain he will solve our scrum woes. I am unconvinced but its definitely going to be interesting to find out.

But who has claimed he'll "solve" the woes? He has been a technically good scrummager before. Why should it be so out-there to think he might still be, and therefore help improve it? Any forward step, or possible forward step should be countenanced. God knows the current product is not selling.

 

[gel]

But who has claimed he'll "solve" the woes? He has been a technically good scrummager before. Why should it be so out-there to think he might still be, and therefore help improve it? Any forward step, or possible forward step should be countenanced. God knows the current product is not selling.

There have been several posters who have been pushing Benn's case pretty hard and tbh sorta comes across that way. With regards to why I am dubious, I tend to see him somewhat like this guy does (who summed it up pretty succinctly a while ago):

Lets be real here, Robinson no athlete. I would say he would have a lot less strength than his peers.
Robinson's scrummaging technique came from low body height and a technique suited to making his opponents having to adjust their hit due to his technique/body height which I have always thought is questionable (shoulders below hips).
Under the new laws their is no hit once and no need for readjustment from said hit (an area that Robinson thrives in taking advantage from) its just a battle of strength and technique.
Which unfortunately is not Robinson's strong point. I maybe wrong but perhaps resident scrum doctor Scott Allen could shed some light

I could be very very wrong though. Scrums are a pretty mysterious area for me.

I honestly don't know whether I am right or not, thus why I was asking about the conditions of Robbo playing on the weekend. I certainly see the logic that he was good before so why shouldn't he be now. But then I also see the logic that the scrums have changed dramatically and maybe that doesn't auger well for him.

I just don't share the level of certainty that some on here have and am curious how they can seem so certain.

*edit* and I would not necessarily say that changing the players is the solution. Surely attending to the scrum deficiencies through training and technique reviews would pay dividends. I would, prefer they work the guys over until they get it right.

 

[Hawko]

Right now our scrum is not just a bit weak; it is absolutely and disastrously so weak that in the next two games we are likely to start 21 points behind zero due to scrum penalties. The factors that have led to this IMO are:

1. The terrible coaching of our scrum, which has seen appallingly bad technique in virtually all our players from 1 to 8. I never packed in a scrum but I know enough about physics to be able to see that our players are in the wrong body position to maximise the energy transfer of the scrum unit.
2. The de-emphasising of scrummaging in Australian test and Super team selections. Our best THP is off to France because he can't earn an ARU contract and therefore get paid to his potential. Our best LHP is not selected for unspecified reasons. Daley continues in the Reds squad despite his inability to scrum at Super level. He's not Robinson Crusoe in Australian squads either. The changes to Super rugby to give more local derbies and less NZ/SA matches tends to hide this weakness.
3. With Palmer gone we have no THP in Australia at all who does not have major deficiencies at test level or has not been tried yet. I have no idea who we could try except Slipper, who is currently playing as a loose head.
4. The choice of Simmons for LH lock was a kindergarten selection failure. Bless my soul, we repeated it in the very next game.
5. Robinson was excluded from the squad for unknown reasons.

So, selecting Robinson has just rectified the fifth most important issue. Putting Timani on first till he gets tired might solve the fourth most important issue because despite his faulty technique he is stronger than Simmons. But none of the first three big issues is capable of immediate solution. So Gel, I don't think anyone believes Fat Cat is the Saviour. But a lot of people think he might make some improvement. And any improvement would be welcome.

 

[gel]

gel - plenty of posters agree and call for his return. I, for one look forward to a great scrummaging perormance and him doing heaps around the field.
Time will reveal all i suppose.

Fair points all. I guess we will see. Tbh, I am just happy for him to continue writing The Walking Dead:

 

[Brumbieman]

Where the hell is Noriega?!

Why is he not our scrum coach still?

We had one year of doing this:

....to every pack around the world, with Alexander at tighthead prop, and Noriega the scrum guru, and then he was.....let go? Quit? What happened?

NOW look where we are! Why the hell is he not in charge of a national Australian scrum academy with mandatory attendance for anyone in first grade rugby or up, on whatever salary he wants?!

Give him Palu's contract/money, we would get a hell of a lot more benefit from Noriega than Palu!

 

[The Incredible Plan]

Off topic but Genia played better with hair

 

[Richo]

I've been pushing for Robinson's recall too, and not because I think he'll magically solve the scrum problems. I was surprised that he was dropped, but figured there must be a good reason. Maybe there was at the time, likely we'll never know. What's happened since then is utterly embarrassing. So I'd like to see him played just to bloody well find out if he sucks in a real, actual test match. If he really can't scrummage under these laws, then that's that. It's not like things can get that much worse.

 

[light]

Off topic but Genia played better with hair

Some would also say he was much better before marriage too!


Not sure what Brumbieman has against Cliffy but getting over the constant jibes which never seem to end. Soon we have to realise that we are at our best when he is at the back of the scrum and our results show that.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Most of Robbo's supporters (and I am one) acknowledge that he alone will not magically make our scrum dominant, or even give it equity. The implied message is that other changes are also needed. Some say replace Simmons with a harder nut, and again I agree. But what about the THP spot? With Sio out of the squad, it seems clear that Slipper will again play LH along with Robbo. No change on the TH side? If Anae makes the 23, he will probably be the deputy hooker. And how can the backrow be improved? We all seem to agree that Fardy needs to be on the ground, but it is generally believed that Mowen would be better at 6 than 8. How do we make the best of what we've got at 6, 7 and 8? Would Dennis at 8 improve matters if Mowen shifted to 6?

I am non-plussed by the decision to go with only one 7. Shades of failed tactics by Deans! Ben McCalman is not really up to playing 7 at test level, as was proven at the RWC.

All still very much a dilemma and one that I think Link is not showing any signs of solving with his selections for the trip away.

 

[Richo]

Why wouldn't Slipper play at THP? He's played there primarily for the Reds and for the Wallabies, IIRC.

 

[Brumbieman]

Some would also say he was much better before marriage too!


Not sure what Brumbieman has against Cliffy but getting over the constant jibes which never seem to end. Soon we have to realise that we are at our best when he is at the back of the scrum and our results show that.

You don't think spending the money we pay Palu to play half a dozen games of "returning from injury" before falling over after missing a tackle and re-injuring himself, might serve Australian rugby better if it was going to Noriega as a permanent scrum guru for the Wallabies/Super rugby/Club rugby all around Australia ?

At his BEST, which hasn't really happened since 2009, yes he's an excellent number 8. The problem is, that was five years ago and instead of developing other options, we just hope that the 'end of the rainbow' fully fit and in form Palu will return.

It ain't going to happen, he's the wrong side of 30, and these days he has about one, MAYBE two games a year at the level that people seem to think he plays at. Most of the time he's a bit average and gets smacked around by halfbacks in the tackle.

The 500k odd a year we spend on Palu would easily finance a scrum Academy for Australian rugby.

 

[No4918]

There is a lot of talk about strength and its new importance. So will throw this out there. I believe Anae would be the strongest front rower in the squad. Therefore should we get dished up with Robinson again throwing him on the bench against the Argies MAY be an option.

I do think Robinson's experience will matter and the niggle he can put on the opposition TH may just help keep them distracted enough to give some advantages.

 

[fatprop]

Now Link is anti Queensland

Ewen McKenzie's anti-Queensland selections are 'baffling', says former Wallabies coach John Connolly

News September 12, 2013 3:00

Connolly said he could not see any sense in the ongoing shunning of halfback Will Genia who he rated as the country’s best rugby player.

​

................................................​

​

Gill, rated a potential Wallabies captain, joins Genia and Quade Cooper as Queensland Reds stars to be overlooked by their former Super Rugby mentor since he became Australian coach.
Genia saw no game time during the Wallabies one-point win over Argentina last week and his replacement, Brumbies half Nic White, will continue to start ahead of him.

"Nic White is a good player but every Super Rugby club has a Nic White, there’s only one Will Genia," Connolly said.

"Liam is very unlucky too.
"It is baffling to me. It is a strange decision.
"Will is the best player in Australian rugby and the only player who would make a world XV.
"He was our best player against the British and Irish Lions and has been behind a beaten pack in each Test.

....................................
Read more: http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/the-rugby-championship/ewen-mckenzies-anti-queensland-selections-are-baffling-says-former-wallabies-coach-john-connolly/story-e6frf4qc-1226721222405#ixzz2fBWtBjOj

 

[Slim 293]

Nic White is a good player but every Super Rugby club has a Nic White, there’s only one Will Genia," Connolly said.

So what Connolly is suggesting is that every Super Rugby team has a scrumhalf that would've performed better than Genia in the first 3 RC tests?

Gotcha..........

 

[Scrubber2050]

Shit you would have to be in la la land to see the only reason Robbo was dropped was because of inferior workload around the field. Just need to look at stats for that.

EVERYONE acknowledges that he is a good technical scrummager.

McKenzie obviously weighed up the equation and dropped the bloke. As said earlier I hope he grabs the opportunity with three hands AND makes a difference in the scrums.

Will be interesting to see how he is used. Straight up or on the pine. The other question for me is that Robbo has been playing Shute and the elevation to Test level is huge - much faster, heavier contact

Have to admit I was surprised that Gill dropped from tour.

 

[Braveheart81]

You don't think spending the money we pay Palu to play half a dozen games of "returning from injury" before falling over after missing a tackle and re-injuring himself, might serve Australian rugby better if it was going to Noriega as a permanent scrum guru for the Wallabies/Super rugby/Club rugby all around Australia ?

At his BEST, which hasn't really happened since 2009, yes he's an excellent number 8. The problem is, that was five years ago and instead of developing other options, we just hope that the 'end of the rainbow' fully fit and in form Palu will return.

It ain't going to happen, he's the wrong side of 30, and these days he has about one, MAYBE two games a year at the level that people seem to think he plays at. Most of the time he's a bit average and gets smacked around by halfbacks in the tackle.

The 500k odd a year we spend on Palu would easily finance a scrum Academy for Australian rugby.

Palu has been our best test 8 this year. Blind Freddie could tell you that we're missing him right now.

Does Palu get 500k per season from the ARU for his Wallaby top up? I highly doubt it. He might get that in total but half of it would come via his Waratahs salary. He also isn't getting Wallaby match payments if he's injured.

Who are these mysterious number 8s who are missing out on being developed because of Palu? Whenever he has been absent we end up playing a 6 at 8 which then detracts from their game (neither Higginbotham or Mowen have played a really strong test at number 8).

We've currently got McCalman as a backup at 8 who has had plenty of Wallaby opportunities and is a known quantity and Schatz who almost got a gig and then got injured but many people would argue he isn't quite ready yet.

If the ARU wanted to hire Noriega as scrum coach, maybe they could use the salary they pay the current scrum coach with.