Springboks v Wallabies, Loftus Versfeld, Sun 9th Jul 1.05am AEST

[TSR]

Yes, I think I was wrong to say the scrum was ok (TBF I really am rather tired).

Don't disagree that the lineout wasn't as good as the game progressed, but I still don't feel that it was particularly poor overall. Ueleses' poor throws aside.

No worries mate. I get it. Rather tired myself.

Thanks for your summary of the scrums.

I think the problem with your last bit is that saying the lineout wasn’t poor overall except for Uelese’s throws seems a bit like saying the steak was good except that it was tough.

Anyway - first game of a new era. Certainly disappointing but the good thing with sport is you get another crack next week. I’m very keen to see the response from Eddie and the players.

 

[Drew]

It's different on an intercept.

In one of those European games on BeIN a winger slapped an intercept, chased it and dived to catch it. If he hadn’t caught it it would’ve been yellow.

 

[griffins]

I don't know, I found the T Hooper selection quite baffling and nothing he did in the limited time he was on the field changed that opinion.

Sure he is a big guy, but didn't do anything else today that really stood out as being at test level.

Watch many Brumbies games? The 2 finals this year or take your pick of any he played last season, should set you straight. Hes probably done for this year with that busted shoulder (even if hes only out for a couple of weeks we dont have enough games to be chopping and changing combos) but he'll establish himself pretty quickly once he gets going.

 

[stillmissit]

In one of those European games on BeIN a winger slapped an intercept, chased it and dived to catch it. If he hadn’t caught it it would’ve been yellow.

Drew, the song remains the same and has been, even in the 25 years I reffed a fair time ago. The difference is he caught it, as you say would have been a yellow. By catching it, it becomes an intercept.

 

[NCT]

Overall South Africa were in a different class to Australia. The debutant 10 for Boks looked good, 9 was effective and the little winger was great. Wallaby forwards failed to make much impact - I have never been a fan of Skelton, for such a big man he goes to ground too easily and he certainly doesn't offer anything in attack or lineout. Maybe mauling but that's all. Noticed that 3 tries were scored down Vunivalu's wing. I had expected teams to target him defensively as his positioning is lacking and tackling is not great.

Hopefully Eddie will make some different selections and different game plan - start Tate instead of White and tell him to pass the ball. Find a lock that can add something to the game and get a winger who understands the game.

 

[griffins]

Breaking the torrent of self-loathing for a sec - it's farking terrifying to see the Boks have decided to actually try and play some football. The bomb and chase style certainly played to their traditional strengths but it looks like they're starting to realise the potential they out wide and that it might be wasting it to have them simply chase kicks for 80 mins. They are going to be very hard to beat in France...

 

[Adam84]

Watch many Brumbies games? The 2 finals this year or take your pick of any he played last season, should set you straight. Hes probably done for this year with that busted shoulder (even if hes only out for a couple of weeks we dont have enough games to be chopping and changing combos) but he'll establish himself pretty quickly once he gets going.

I believe I've watched enough of his games..

Promising talent for sure, but given he has played more games off the bench in Super Rugby and doesn't have many runs on the board in 2023, I think selecting him at 6 for debut against the Boys went as well as expected. I think he is one for the future, not for the 2023 RWC.

 

[dru]

Carter was good, we looked better when he came on.

Quade’s defence that had improved was poor again fell off a number of tackles

Quade hit big men front on because the pack wasn't there, stuck to it for the pack to join, then bounced off. I'd call it ballsy and job done.

 

[RugbyReg]

Do you have a take Reg? What's your thoughts on the game and where to from here?

I do agree there is a lot of gloom here.

Do we have the players, class and experience? Or is this a reflection of where Rugby is at for us as a country and the issue isn't the coaches or even player selection but rather the systems leading up to the national side?

We have a rather long recent history now of a series of coaches struggling to turn our players into a winning team against opposition who just have more depth and seeming quality across the park. This has been reflected in our provincial/SuperRugby sides which haven't had a winning culture or limited success against teams from other countries (NZ & SA in the past) for a good while now.

All that aside, first game with a new coach in a rather trying first assignment. I think there needs to be a degree of perspective and grace given before we can draw any sweeping conclusions how the 2023 version of the Wallabies is traveling.

The stats say it all.

It was comprehensive. Men v boys.

I am not as down on QC (Quade Cooper) and Kerevi as they are making their way back. Gordon's impact was great, but let's keep giving him time off then bench. Hodge was a non-entity at 12 so let Samu play with Quade.

I was really disappointed in White. I thought he was option taking was pretty damn average. So you had both halves offering not much but both behind a pack that was monstered.

Like many suggested, selection was odd but I think most of us wanted Eddie to have his time. But none really paid off. Vunivalu definitely note, Hooper (T) not really. Skelton was good but to throw him straight into altitude was rough.

Hooper is a different player now. You sense he is very aware of contact now. He's not the same kamikaze player he once was - is the current version enough? I don't think so. I McReight deserves a shot by am open to Langi Gleeson as a 7 option, v the Boks at least.

The result was shit but with a whole new coaching team across the board, I am not throwing the baby out with the bathwater yet. Except for Vunivalu.

 

[SamoanNo8]

Michael Hooper has been a wonderful Wallaby over so many years.
But last night, and indeed in recent times, he was far from his best. I feel in his current form Hooper offers neither the physical abrasion/hyperactivity that he used to, nor any fetching ability.
I feel as though Eddie needs to decide whether he wants a physical presence at 7 such as Gleeson, or a fetcher in McReight. But something in between will not work.

 

[Ignoto]

I thought the big hype around T Hooper was that he could play 7 which allows you to have Halloway or Leota at 6.

Stupid mistakes and decision making allowed the springboks to never be in a position where they had to make decisions under pressure. The fact they gave Hodge two cracks at 60m kicks instead of going to the corner and trying to fatigue the Boks at least was most concerning.

Ever since Hodge missed the winning Bledisloe kick in 2020, I've never had faith in him slotting when needed.

 

[Rebel man]

Quade hit big men front on because the pack wasn't there, stuck to it for the pack to join, then bounced off. I'd call it ballsy and job done.

He definitely put his body on the line. Just felt he went chest to chest a few times

 

[stillmissit]

It was comprehensive. Men v boys.
I was really disappointed in White. I thought he was option taking was pretty damn average. So you had both halves offering not much but both behind a pack that was monstered.
The result was shit but with a whole new coaching team across the board, I am not throwing the baby out with the bathwater yet. Except for Vunivalu.

I wondered if that was EJ (Eddie Jones) wanting more kicking than taking the ball up. But agree it looked like a poor game from him. Still, the best we have.
Nothing saves the forwards....as a pack they were shit One off efforts by Frost, Skelton and an occasional run by Valetine gave us nothing. The breakdown was broken beyond repair (EJ (Eddie Jones) again?}

 

[qwerty51]

Analysis is too depressing, there’s still a good team in there if Eddie wants to pick it.

1. Bell
2. Uelese (still can’t throw but who else we got ffs)
3. Tupou
4. Frost
5. Skelton
6. Holloway
7. Gleeson
8. Valetini
9. McDermott
10. C Gordon
11. Korobiete
12. Kerevi
13. Ikitau
14. Petaia
15. Kellaway

16. Faessler
17. Slipper
18. Ala'alatoa
19. Arnold
20. Hanigan/LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)
21. White
22. Quade
23. Foketi/Mark N (Nawaqanitawase)

- Porecki & Hooper (and McReight) you are all too fucking small. Go away.
- Uelese can’t throw but our scrum going backwards is a major concern what choice do we have? Give him some taller timber options and Holloway at least for fucks sake. LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)/Hanigan on the bench to bolster lineout and weight in the scrum. Enough of these smaller backrowers.
- Give C Gordon the 10 v Arg and see what he does.
- Just about done with Tom Wright at this level. Done with Hodge.

Good work Eddie giving the captaincy to Slipper & Hooper because now the best starting side can’t happen.

What the FUCK did he see in Vunivalu.

 

[KOB1987]

I liked that QWERTY except Porecki is bigger than Faessler, so that’s not the right angle to drop him. After putting myself through the pain of a second watch I thought M Hooper was one of the few players that tried his heart out last night so gave him 2 points, the game plan whatever it was didn’t suit as he needs an expansive game plan to be effective. I agree with others that the 2020’s version of the game doesn’t suit his style but he should still be on the plane to France.

 

[qwerty51]

I liked that QWERTY except Porecki is bigger than Faessler, so that’s not the right angle to drop him.

You’re right, Fainga'a is probably a better option but let’s at least give him a chance.

 

[Digestif Palu]

Analysis is too depressing, there’s still a good team in there if Eddie wants to pick it.

1. Bell
2. Uelese (still can’t throw but who else we got ffs)
3. Tupou
4. Frost
5. Skelton
6. Holloway
7. Gleeson
8. Valetini
9. McDermott
10. C Gordon
11. Korobiete
12. Kerevi
13. Ikitau
14. Petaia
15. Kellaway

16. Faessler
17. Slipper
18. Ala'alatoa
19. Arnold
20. Hanigan/LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)
21. White
22. Quade
23. Foketi/Mark N (Nawaqanitawase) (Nawaqanitawase)

- Porecki & Hooper (and McReight) you are all too fucking small. Go away.
- Uelese can’t throw but our scrum going backwards is a major concern what choice do we have? Give him some taller timber options and Holloway at least for fucks sake. LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)/Hanigan on the bench to bolster lineout and weight in the scrum. Enough of these smaller backrowers.
- Give C Gordon the 10 v Arg and see what he does.
- Just about done with Tom Wright at this level. Done with Hodge.

Good work Eddie giving the captaincy to Slipper & Hooper because now the best starting side can’t happen.

What the FUCK did he see in Vunivalu.

Pretty big fan of this.

 

[Dctarget]

 

[dru]

Now the line outs (there were plenty):

First Half
<Porecki hooker; 5 man lineout unless stated otherwise>
0'35" Gold throw to IV (Frost), overthrow regained by Hodge - Win Gold
1'15" Gold throw to II (Tom), Win Gold
3'50" Gold throw to front (Slipper), Win Gold
4'20" Gold throw to III (Frost), Win Gold
6'00" Gold throw to II (Tom), Win Gold
7'00" Gold throw to III (Frost), messy, lost, regained AAA. Win Gold.
18'30" Bok throw, overthrow not straight, Win Gold
20'50" Bok throw, Green win
21'26" Gold throw to II (Tom), Win Gold ,7 man line out from the 20m>
22'40" Gold throw to II (Frost), Win Gold
26'00" Gold throw to II (Frost), messy but Win Gold
29'00 Bok throw, Bok win
32'00" Gold throw to III (Frost), messy, Slipper, Win Gold
34'14" Bok throw, Bok win
35'30" Bok throw, Bok Win
37'00" Gold throw to II (Frost), Gold Win
30'10" Bok throw, Bok win

Bok 5 wins from 6 throws; Wallabies 11 wins from 12 throws

Second Half
40'20" Bok throw and win (Frost with hand to ball)
42'30" Bok throw and win
44'00" Bok throw bow win
46'30" Gold throw to II (Samu), Win Gold
48'30 Bok throw, overthrow regain Quade, Win Gold
49'50" Bok throw Bok Win
53'30" Bok throw Bok win
<Porecki off>
55'00" Bok throw, Frost win, Gold Win
55'40" Uelese on, Samu off <scrum change>
57'50" Bok throw, Frost win - Gold Win
59'40" Bok throw Bok win
62'30" Gold throw to II (Samu), Gold win
63'30" Gold throw to III (Frost) clean take but not straight, Bok win
65'12" Bok throw Bok Win
73'30" Bok throw, Bok Win (Frost disrupting)
79'--" Gold throw to II (Samu) clean take but not straight Bok Win

Bok 10 wins from 11 throws; Wallabies 2 wins from 4 throws.
Porecki Uelese with 2 not straight from 3 throws and all three were to the front end of the lineout.

 

[stillmissit]

Analysis is too depressing, there’s still a good team in there if Eddie wants to pick it.

1. Bell
2. Uelese (still can’t throw but who else we got ffs)
3. Tupou
4. Frost
5. Skelton
6. Holloway
7. Gleeson
8. Valetini
9. McDermott
10. C Gordon
11. Korobiete
12. Kerevi
13. Ikitau
14. Petaia
15. Kellaway

16. Faessler
17. Slipper
18. Ala'alatoa
19. Arnold
20. Hanigan/LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)
21. White
22. Quade
23. Foketi/Mark N (Nawaqanitawase) (Nawaqanitawase)

- Porecki & Hooper (and McReight) you are all too fucking small. Go away.
- Uelese can’t throw but our scrum going backwards is a major concern what choice do we have? Give him some taller timber options and Holloway at least for fucks sake. LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)/Hanigan on the bench to bolster lineout and weight in the scrum. Enough of these smaller backrowers.
- Give C Gordon the 10 v Arg and see what he does.
- Just about done with Tom Wright at this level. Done with Hodge.

Good work Eddie giving the captaincy to Slipper & Hooper because now the best starting side can’t happen.

What the FUCK did he see in Vunivalu.

Great post qwerty. Agree with all you say except for Gleeson at 7, but I have made my arguments regarding him several times. I would put McRight against the Argies but prefer Samu/Wilkin against AB's. M. Hooper, if he must play has to be from the bench.