Springbokke vs Ierland Series

[PaarlBok]

Teams will be announce in an hour or three. for the first of three @ Newslands

History of SA v Ireland in SA:

1961, Cape Town: SA 24-8 Ireland

1981, Cape Town: SA 23-15 Ireland

1981, Durban: SA 12-10 Ireland

1998, Bloemfontein: SA 37-13 Ireland

1998, Pretoria: SA 30-0 Ireland

2004, Bloemfontein: SA 31-17 Ireland

2004, Cape Town: SA 26-17 Ireland

 

[Hawko]

Three big issues from this series for mine:

1. The impact of quotas
2. What happens to the SA gameplan, with particular reference to who and how plays ten.
3. The impact of Coetzee

Ireland have gone off the boil big time, so much so that people are starting to question St. Joe. If he and the team can get some form and players back they could easily pinch this series.

 

[PaarlBok]

Teams:
South Africa
15 Willie le Roux, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Lionel Mapoe, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Lwazi Mvovo, 10 Pat Lambie, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Siya Kolisi, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Adriaan Strauss (captain), 1 Tendai Mtawarira
Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Trevor Nyakane, 18 Julian Redelinghuys, 19 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 20 Warren Whiteley, 21 Rudy Paige 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 Jesse Kriel
Ireland
15 Jared Payne, 14 Andrew Trimble, 13 Robbie Henshaw, 12 Luke Marshall, 11 Keith Earls, 10 Paddy Jackson, 9 Conor Murray, 8 Jamie Heaslip, 7 Jordi Murphy, 6 CJ Stander, 5 Devin Toner, 4 Iain Henderson, 3 Mike Ross, 2 Rory Best (captain) 1 Jack McGrath
Substitutes: 16 Sean Cronin, 17 Finlay Bealham, 18 Tadhg Furlong, 19 Ultan Dillane, 20 Rhys Ruddock, 21 Kieran Marmion 22 Ian Madigan, 23 Craig Gilroy

 

[PaarlBok]

Hawko

Three big issues from this series for mine:

1. The impact of quotas
2. What happens to the SA gameplan, with particular reference to who and how plays ten.
3. The impact of Coetzee

Ireland have gone off the boil big time, so much so that people are starting to question St. Joe. If he and the team can get some form and players back they could easily pinch this series.

Meyer selected white qoutas , maybe AC will do better.

The first test will set the tune.

Myself would not have picked the chicken runners Vermeulen & Louw. Its a flippen shambles they don't select in form players like Whiteley & Jaco Kriel. Our system is wrong. AC only select x WP chicken runners which send out the wrong message like Meyer did with his Bulls blue print.

Iere by 50.

 

[saulityvi]

Hawko

Meyer selected white qoutas , maybe AC will do better.

The first test will set the tune.

Myself would not have picked the chicken runners Vermeulen & Louw. Its a flippen shambles they don't select in form players like Whiteley & Jaco Kriel. Our system is wrong. AC only select x WP chicken runners which send out the wrong message like Meyer did with his Bulls blue print.

Iere by 50.

Cant really blame the coach for picking Duane&Louw, they are excellent rugby players.
Kriel is alot like Liam Gill, just unfortunate to be behind so good players.

What do you reckon, Mapoe been in excellent form but I still think the incumbent Jesse Kriel might also feel hard done.

Other than that, Lambie at 10 isnt a surprise as Pollard is out and Jantjies is green and untested at this level, still expect him to get a start especially if SA are up 2-0 going into the last game

 

[Brumby Runner]

Think the Boks might have it all over Ireland in the tight five.

 

[PaarlBok]

Saulityvi

Cant really blame the coach for picking Duane&Louw, they are excellent rugby players.

How can he select F Louw above Kriel? Flo hardly play rugby anymore. Duanne WAS a good player but a week is a long time in rugby. Its anyway more the system. Why did he not select Bismarckt?

Mapoe is by far a better 13 then Kriel on current form.

 

[Ulrich]

I think Kriel will get his start on the Lions' patch later on in the series.

How much could the team really have gelled and adapted their game plan in two weeks is the other question. So therefore it makes sense from a coach's perspective to start out a little bit more conservatively and have some experienced heads around.

Remember also that some players always seem to lift their game when in green. Players such as Schalk Burger and Vermeulen come to mind. I do fear Vermeulen may have too many games under his belt over a sustained period to be his true best however.

I would love to see Combrink and Jantjies given a run during this series as well.

 

[KevinO]

The Ref has just gifted South Africa the match, biggest bull shit red card I have seen in a long time.

How you can say CJ was not trying to charge down the ball is a joke.

 

[Slim 293]

It was definitely a yellow at the very least............

 

[saulityvi]

The Ref has just gifted South Africa the match, biggest bull shit red card I have seen in a long time.

How you can say CJ was not trying to charge down the ball is a joke.

Obviously they didnt accept the gift.
Shitty performance from the bokke and very very gutsy from Ireland when JPP almost got over in the corner after the hooter, there were still four(4) guys tackling him! They put in an outstanding effort.

 

[Ulrich]

Well that was the most embarrassing defeat after the Japan defeat. At least Argentina beat us with 15 men.

Great performance by Ireland. Despite the despicable performance and despair I experience as a fan I feel happy for the Irish players and fans on some level. Congratulations to you and your lot.

We never looked like scoring. We never looked like creating anything. Ireland looked far more threatening with 13 and 14 men throughout the game. They played such smart rugby by kicking into our territory. The rush defense was superb from Ireland.

Over the last two years it's become disheartening as a Bok fan to hear "Argentina are making history", "Japan made history" and "Ireland on the cusp of making history". Nobody fears the Springboks anymore and nobody fears touring South Africa anymore.

 

[Bardon]

It was a fantastic performance from Ireland. To do it with 14 men is an immense achievement. There are so many players in the team who might not have been there but for injuries.

Those guys really stood up and took their chance.

It's going to be one hell of a series. South Africa will have to react to this. I expect them to be much better in the second test as they look to avenge today. Ireland have a tendency to rest on their laurels after a big performance so I'm expecting South Africa to win the second test.

Then it'll be about whether we can hit the heights again in the third test.

Even if we lose the series 2-1 it'll be monumental for Irish rugby. Personally I'd like to see us show we have the ambition to really go for the series win.

 

[Ulrich]

Even if we lose the series 2-1 it'll be monumental for Irish rugby. Personally I'd like to see us show we have the ambition to really go for the series win.

With Joe the Kiwi as coach you can bet that Ireland will target winning the series.

 

[vismyr]

Wowsers! Maybe there is a correlation between Super Rugby and the Tests after all. On the whole, SA teams have been very average, this year specifically and that was one of the worst SA performances I have seen in a long, long time. I respect the 'Boks as our greatest foe, but that was...hideous. Vermeulen, Etzebeth, Strauss etc. all looked very, very average. Congrats to Ireland for pulling off such a huge win! Look forward to seeing how the next two play out.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

What a famous win for Ireland. Congrats to our Irish friends here and commiserations to the Saffers. Was the game itself worth watching?

 

[KevinO]

^^^Nope, just find highlights.

Boks were poor, this weekend really showed that the super rugby expansion was worth it. Eng hammered Aus, SA lose to Ireland despite playing 3 quarters the game with a player advantage. Argentina only just beat Italy, and NZ struggled for 60 min vs Wales.

 

[Mank]

^^^Nope, just find highlights.

Boks were poor, this weekend really showed that the super rugby expansion was worth it. Eng hammered Aus, SA lose to Ireland despite playing 3 quarters the game with a player advantage. Argentina only just beat Italy, and NZ struggled for 60 min vs Wales.

We'll see what the trend is but unfortunately my intuition is to agree with you. I would far prefer a Super Rugby comp with four teams from SA concentrated on playing top quality opposition week in and week out. Diluting the quality and hoping that in the expanded pool of average players you'll find your gems is not the way this works. Evidence shows that meaningful high quality practice is how you become the best.

In any case, we as South African fans need to stop living in a dream of past glory and realise that the only way to judge a team is on results. Our results show us to be a team on a downward trend and in fact a very middling team overall. With the Rand as weak as it is, the lure of our players overseas, the continual destructive political environment, the continual chasing of money at expense of quality games, I expect SA will find their level somewhere around middle of 6 nations pack eventually, and remain there.

Upbeat much?

Very well done to Ireland, I would imagine how proud you are to see such a passionate and gritty performance to work out a win under the circumstances the referee put you under. I look forward to an intense battle next week but am just so so tired of sitting with my head in hands watching inept play by the Springboks.

 

[JJJ]

What a performance from Ireland. You'd never guess they had less men on the field watching it. South Africa were well beaten in every department, and their fans can't even console themselves with outrage at the ref. Hard to see any positives to take away from it. Faf de Klerk looked good, that's about it.

The Irish conveyor belt of gifted field-kicking flyhalves continues. And their mauling is the benchmark. Once they set it up no matter how you defend it you'll be done for in the side sooner or later.

It's a shame I can't watch the saffer and kiwi matches on the foxsports website without having to wade through spoilers first. Shitty web design.

 

[Ulrich]

The last two years may be defining for South African rugby history and the next two seasons, including this one, may add weight to a decline or it may spring a resurrection.

The Springboks were near infallible during their early years bar some dodgy bullying and you could say biased home-town refereeing. Other than that it was known that playing the Springboks was just as hard if not harder than playing the All Blacks.

How that history has been buggered by politics, not only lately but also during the apartheid era.

Look at some footage even during the 1956 series loss to New Zealand to see the skill levels from some of our tries scored and you'll soon realise that something has gone pear-shaped. Not for one moment do I believe our players are daft. It's just that our playing style has become so darn limiting in the sense that we'd rather do damage limitation and stand some chance to win rather than playing with our hearts and for our country. The pride is gone.

There simply cannot be pride when you are excluding a race from your sport and there cannot be pride when you elect one race above another as things stand today. Siya is a great player, Mbonambi is decent and Scarra is decent. All of them will probably wonder within themselves whether they are there on merit and many of their white peers will wonder whether they are missing out because of this. It's no surprise then, barring the weakened currency, that we have ever younger players heading overseas for opportunity.

Perhaps we should start priding ourselves on our rugby player export value instead because it seems we certainly can't pride ourselves on the Springboks any longer and I suspect things will only get worse.

It is time to retire the Springbok name and brand, lest it suffer more humiliation.