Spirit v Rising - who's done the NRC right?

[GaffaCHinO]

I think if the spirit b team was uncompetitive then I could understand the issue ppl have with the way rugby wa have gone about the comp.

But they haven't been uncompetitive at all they beat the vikings and lost to the rising by 20 after a laps of about 10min other then that they were well in the game.

As a club player and follower it has been great to see players I have played with and against finally get a crack.

Take Brent Murphy for example. He has easily been the best lock in wa for the last 7-8 years he was Motm in a winning grand final when he was 18-19 but was never really given the chance at the force and that's due to factors that have already been covered. (Coaches not wanting to pick local players because of the notion the comp was of a low standard).
He even went over to nsw and played in the shield and from all reports held his own.

Now at 28 you would have to say his chance of a super rugby career are over but he is now getting the chance to show what he has and is doing a bloody good job of it.

With the local wa players being so competitive it validates the local comp and paves the way for future wa boys to get the chance that guys like Murphy have missed out on in the past.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I reckon WA rugby folks have well and truly gotten behind the Spirit. Based on what I've seen at the home games there is plenty of interest and the view seems to be that it's great that the local lads are getting a crack.

 

[kiap]

I was thinking a bit about this one and it occurred to me that our tight five against the Stars (2 Super Rugby players) demolished a Stars scrum (3 Wallabies) in Perth. Now this is only one instance in an entire competition and I don't take it to mean much. But maybe sometimes the difference between club players and Super Rugby players is not as great as some people make out.

True, sometimes. But the extra experience usually counts.

TBF while Weeks, Ryan and Big Will have a few test caps each, they are super players on the Wallaby fringe. Weeks stands out for the Stars, but Tets and Wykesy edged their opposites for experience. And being a home game the Spirit overall had much more experience on the day than the struggling Stars. The backline was just about Super against club.

Andy S made a good post on TWF a few weeks back:

I think most folk are happy to cut them a little slack as the comp finds its feet, but sooner or later I suspect there will be questions asked about how seriously the competition is to be taken. This comp has many objectives, only one of which is development. If a team is not going to seriously attempt to win it, I can see issues down the track by way of the sponsors. Even more with broadcasters, who are not going to pay if they think it is all just a bait-and-switch. If we are not going to play available Wallabies, I could see the ARU sending them elsewhere on a "use it or lose it" approach. I could also see them encouraging our Super Rugby players to move to another team where they will get a run to stay in Wallabies contention and press claims for the EOYT.​

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Development alone is fine, but it undermines the credibility of the competition and negates the idea that they are lifting the standards by allowing new players to compete alongside and against professionals. Having players sit out to address injury concerns is one thing, but as is often seen in AFL and now basketball just pulling the best players from the comp for player management can be very hard to differentiate from tanking. Even more so when you are potentially messing with your opponents ability to recoup costs...how do we feel when NH sides send down teams stripped of all their names in June?​

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You don't see all the Super Rugby players sitting out of the ITM and Currie Cups - they are real competitions with pride and tribalism on the line. If you are the best available you play, and if the NRC is to hang around and be taken seriously the first step is going to be having it treated seriously by the club. At the moment it doesn't really seem to be, being more a series of knock-around trial scratch matches. And watching the match at McGillivray, it is not like the Force players attacking skills couldn't do with a bit of polishing. Looked reasonable individually, but there wasn't much fluency as a team in pressing advantage or seamless transition from defence to attack. It is what worries me about next year frankly - that we have shown what we are about this year, but that was all of it and being unable to take that next step we'll go the same way as the Cheetahs.​

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On the whole the Spirit and Rising are perhaps two extremes of the pendulum...we're making arrangements for Super Rugby five years from now, they are practicing for success next year. It is a tough call as to which is better, but having 16 players with Super Rugby experience and the seven best prospects from outside the club does not seem to be disproportionate. It certainly feels a slightly better balance than the Spirit is striking.​

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http://twf.com.au/showthread.php?t=35731&p=386826&viewfull=1#post386826​

 

[TOCC]

If fatigue from travel was a concern, why did RugbyWA decide to host one of their home games in Adelaide?

 

[Forcefield]

how do we feel when NH sides send down teams stripped of all their names in June?

That is a very, very convincing argument. The only possible retorts I have are that Test matches are the flagship of rugby and not taking them seriously is more sacrilegious. The other is that at least the Spirit have remained competitive. But I see the point and I hope a different approach is taken by the Spirit next year. We have taken in a handful of those guys that played for the Spirit on Force contracts. So maybe it'll be less of an issue.

If fatigue from travel was a concern, why did RugbyWA decide to host one of their home games in Adelaide?

Because they knew they were going to send a B team? Not that that is an excuse. Still playing in places like Adelaide, Hobart or Darwin should be goals of the NRC, IMO.

 

[TOCC]

Because they knew they were going to send a B team? Not that that is an excuse. Still playing in places like Adelaide, Hobart or Darwin should be goals of the NRC, IMO.

But why? Are you saying if this game were to be played in Perth they still would have sent their B-Team? On one hand you have RugbyWA doing a good job spreading the games to other areas like Adelaide, but then they offset that by sending b-teams to away games.

Essentially this competition can't exist if broadcast rights and sponsors don't get on board, Do you think Foxtel and the sponsors will want to continue sponsoring this competition if every team plays their B-Team at away games?

IMO Its imperative that clubs show this competition the respect it needs to survive.

 

[Jagman]

But why? Are you saying if this game were to be played in Perth they still would have sent their B-Team? On one hand you have RugbyWA doing a good job spreading the games to other areas like Adelaide, but then they offset that by sending b-teams to away games.

Essentially this competition can't exist if broadcast rights and sponsors don't get on board, Do you think Foxtel and the sponsors will want to continue sponsoring this competition if every team plays their B-Team at away games?

IMO Its imperative that clubs show this competition the respect it needs to survive.

At least for televised games yes. You'd think it's rather insular of the Force to send a B Spirit team to televised game. How much development will they get out of a competition if Foxtel refuse to foot the bill?


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[Braveheart81]

I'd argue anybody who is watching NRC, watches super rugby. And if a Force fan sees a bunch of names they've never heard of, likely asks what the fuck as they switch over the Matty Johns on Thursday night or whatever else is on.

On the flipside, the moderately knowledgeable WA rugby fan would be excited about seeing some promising club players who could be a part of the Force in the future together with some of the stars of the Under 20s team like Scoble, Haylett-Petty and Lacey.

I know I'm more interested in watching some of those new guys run around than thinking well... they've left Junior Rasolea out and Brynard Stander is on the bench so wtf haven't they selected the Super Rugby players so I'm not going to watch it.

Clearly the Spirit could have fielded better teams in some games but one of those home games where they played close to their best side they lost. They're coming third on the ladder and their non-Super Rugby players have been shown to be pretty good. They've clearly got a lot more depth amongst non-contracted players than the Rising team and realistically, there are quite a lot of non-Super Rugby Spirit players who'd be close to getting a run with some of the other teams so it's not like they're out of their depth.

 

[Tomikin]

I would suggest there both right because they are in different stages of their development. And had different success in super rugby.

Force are riding high after a quality season, they have a supportive base of fans that like to see the young guys.

Melbourne have struggled trying to win the fans. No success yet. All a rebels / rising fan want to see is a win.. That's what's good for the market.

Both worthwhile development. Plus Perth have to manage travel.

 

[Hoolly Doolly]

A lot of diehard WA rugby fans have club affiliations and are more likely to be saying something along the lines of "Finally RugbyWA are giving club players a chance". Some would like the full strength Spirit playing all of the time but I think almost all understand the need for a) a local pathway b) developing depth in the wider squad and c) managing the workload of the rugby franchise that has the most demanding travel schedule in the work (I think).
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This

 

[Train Without a Station]

If club rugby fans were enough to support the game we wouldn't need the NRC.

 

[Jagman]

Very interesting after today's game. Judging by the poll it seems the team who has done right by the NRC has paid for it in the end. Spirit invested a lot into a B team and it meant they had a hardier 23 players to field in the semi and were less affected by Wallaby selection.

 

[qwerty51]

Rising paid the price for continuing playing their A team even when they had sewn up top spot. The team they put out vs QLD Country was ridiculous.

 

[D-Box]

I personally think the Spirit did it right in terms of developing their squad and talant pool for the super squads which was one of the stated aims of th comp. However I can understand those that argue the best available teams should have played from a ratings point of view.

If the Spirit go on to win will we see more teams taking this route and what impact will that have on the deal with Foxtel?

 

[ChargerWA]

Late to this thread, but as a WA Rugby fan I'm genuinely more excited when the B team runs out. Who wants to watch Super players bash up teams of club players. Being fairly remote from Perth I hear about the good WA players but really don't get to see them play. That's the best part of the NRC for me.

 

[kiap]

Late to this thread, but as a WA Rugby fan I'm genuinely more excited when the B team runs out. Who wants to watch Super players bash up teams of club players.

So I take it you guys were disappointed by yesterday's game? Perth had 100 more Super caps than Melbourne out there!

The Spirit were right to change their policy and field their Super players for it. They should still be able to rest and rotate a few players - no problem with that - but genuine B teams shouldn't be playing in this comp. If people prefer to see club players then they can go and watch club rugby somewhere - anywhere.

Yesterday the Spirit started 10 Super players but the majority of the 23 were not super-capped. That's a good mix, give or take. Development players still get a run but it's not a B grade match.

If (and thankfully this won't happen) the Spirit ran out their B side next week then Rugby WA would be well and truly short-changing this comp. It short-changes people who turn up and buy a ticket.

The Spirit are doing it right now by putting out their best available side (or close to it) to try to win these matches.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

What attracts me is seeing mix of super rugby players who are on the fringe of next stage of progression (ie wallaby selection) and those club players who are on the fringe of next step of progression (ie super rugby contracts).

To me this is what NRC about and spirit achieved both objectives with mix of super rugby and club players....don't want to just watch team of club players or just a team of super rugby players but rather both.

What is exciting is already got many names on the list for super rugby contracts now from NRC comp - Rebels signed box hill outside centre as result of NRC form and got Macmahon, english, joness and fawlkner (sorry can't remember how to spell Rising / Force prop's name).....selected for spring tour based on NRC form

THis is what I am enjoying - chance to see next super rugby stars and next wallaby stars of the future.....

I have never been to a club rugby match and go to only couple of waratah's matches a season and odd wallaby game.....and watch all australian conference super rugby games and wallaby games on fox.

But have been to all 4 home sydney star games......watched all NRC games on fox, and plenty of games streamed....why? Because in terms of live games much more affordable and social and local, and fills the void in terms of live games with super rugby season.

I would never otherwise see these emerging club rugby players until they got a super rugby contract...Now I get to see them and talk about them and see how they have come to be super rugby players based on NRC form.

Pretty exciting stuff....just need to market and sell the concept...

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I agree with comment - lot of people who watch NRC games watch super rugby so want to have some familiar names to watch but also see the next generation of super rugby players ie the best club rugby players who have the potential to reach the next level

 

[Rugbynutter39]

And final note...I think Rebels and Force will be much stronger super rugby teams for the benefits they have got from NRC to build much greater depth and further develop their existing contracted players

NRC is building the much needed depth for rugby.....it is huge....as relying just on club rugby alone as talent pool for super rugby unfortunately always left us way behind our SANZAR partners of NZ and SA.

Opportunity to finally close the gap....won't happen overnight but heading in right direction

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

And final note.I think Rebels and Force will be much stronger super rugby teams for the benefits they have got from NRC to build much greater depth and further develop their existing contracted players

NRC is building the much needed depth for rugby...it is huge..as relying just on club rugby alone as talent pool for super rugby unfortunately always left us way behind our SANZAR partners of NZ and SA.

Opportunity to finally close the gap..won't happen overnight but heading in right direction

Absolutely. Only good things will come out of all this and for the states where rugby is played in lesser numbers (like Victoria and WA) the exposure and pathways that the NRC provides will be extremely valuable. I'm very glad we've participated in it.