South African Rugby - Ongoing Stupidity

[Blue]

So we see again the effects of the Bok management not having a say as to when players can return to action for their provinces.

Barely back from the RC most provinces had their Boks back in action in the Currie Cup last weekend.

As a result Andries Bekker is again out for the season as is backup hooker Liebenberg (a good thing, mind).

Jean De Villiers tears a hammie and is in doubt for the EOYT.

Coenie Oosthuizen's plays for the Cheetahs and his back is gone.

Wait for the returning Sharks and Bulls to go down like flies this weekend. These guys are playing with niggly injuries and fatigue.

We need to do everything possible to be able to compete with the All Blacks. This is not how you do it. Idiots.

 

[boyo]

Coenie Oosthuizen's plays for the Cheetahs and his back is gone.

Quick, get after it!

 

[Brisbok]

Can't ever see this changing though, Blue. Can you? How are SARU going to take control from the Provinces and put in place central contracting? Very frustrating.

Their track record of boardroom decision making and showing initiative doesn't give me much confidence.....

 

[Blue]

Quick, get after it!

Great contribution.

 

[Blue]

Can't ever see this changing though, Blue. Can you? How are SARU going to take control from the Provinces and put in place central contracting? Very frustrating.

Their track record of boardroom decision making and showing initiative doesn't give me much confidence...

Nope. Structure is such that it won't happen. Going to cost us year in and year out. How many EOYT can you remember wiht loads of injuries? Sure, it gives youngsters a chance but you can't build continuity.

 

[barbarian]

Jeez after such a long season surely a break would seem the logical thing.

Blue do you think the pressure is coming from SARU or the CC teams themselves? Surely they would be desperate for some of those quality players to turn out for them.

 

[Brisbok]

It's catch 22 Barbs. The CC provinces and coaches are not concerned with the Springbok EOYT. From their perspective, the players who have been overplayed should be rested then. They have a Currie Cup to win and they will pick their best available team (until those players have literally run themselves into the ground and then succumb to injury!).

There is also a promotion/relegation system in place in the CC. For a team like the Cheetahs, they will certainly be picking all of their available Springboks to avoid being relegated to the 2nd division of the CC.

 

[qwerty51]

Hey at least you guys are already playing the least amount of tests..

 

[Brisbok]

Nope. Structure is such that it won't happen. Going to cost us year in and year out. How many EOYT can you remember wiht loads of injuries? Sure, it gives youngsters a chance but you can't build continuity.

Agree, doesn't really achieve anything. Hopefully given the circumstances, Meyer decides to get SOME benefit out of it and actually gives the youngster's an opportunity, unlike his predecessor who preferred to continue the trend of running the same players into the ground after they'd played the whole Super Rugby, Tri-Nations and end of the Currie Cup (Matfield etc. spring to mind).

I remember the last EOYT Lambie had two or three last 10 minute cameos off the bench at 10 as there was a "win at all cost" mentality so Steyn had to start. Lambie was then brought on with games still in the balance and expected to kick over a few last minute penalties or two to win the games. Then when he had an opportunity to play at 10 in a no pressure situation against the Barbarians, Jantjies (a completely new and unused player at that point) was given the start at 10! We even had Kirchner playing at 13 at one stage IIRC - achieving absolutely nothing given that he will NEVER play there again.

 

[Braveheart81]

Here's a question that I could surely find out the answer to myself, but are the Currie Cup coaches the same as the Super Rugby coaches for the teams that are in both?

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Hmmm, not sure you can blame the SARU for this one. Did the players want to play? Given the last 2 Bok games were at home too, it's not like there was a travel issue involved.

Somtimes luck is just not on your side

 

[Brisbok]

Here's a question that I could surely find out the answer to myself, but are the Currie Cup coaches the same as the Super Rugby coaches for the teams that are in both?

In most cases yes they are. However there are a few exceptions. A current example is at the Bulls where Frans Ludeke is the Super Rugby coach only, with Pine Pienaar looking after the CC team.

 

[Blue]

Hmmm, not sure you can blame the SARU for this one. Did the players want to play? Given the last 2 Bok games were at home too, it's not like there was a travel issue involved.

Somtimes luck is just not on your side

What an odd thing to say. Luck?

Who else do you blame than management when an organisation is broken?

I am saying that the whole system is broken. Guess who runs it? SARU, a completely toothless organisation for so many reasons I'd derail the thread if I went into them.

The bottom line is there should be an elite roster of players and the Bok management call the shots of who plays and when but they cannot because a large part fo that players pay packet is footed by the Unions and once tests are over it is a free for all.

Because of 100 years of power bases that control rugby in SA this will never happen and they will not give the Boks the best possible chance.

 

[Blue]

Hey at least you guys are already playing the least amount of tests..

Ah yeah sorry I see. We play a couple less tests than you guys so everything is just absolutely fine. How did I miss that?

This is a problem we have had for many years. Not a once off issue this year.

It has been well documented and is always a huge complaint of every Bok coach since readmission.

 

[Blue]

It's catch 22 Barbs. The CC provinces and coaches are not concerned with the Springbok EOYT. From their perspective, the players who have been overplayed should be rested then. They have a Currie Cup to win and they will pick their best available team (until those players have literally run themselves into the ground and then succumb to injury!).

There is also a promotion/relegation system in place in the CC. For a team like the Cheetahs, they will certainly be picking all of their available Springboks to avoid being relegated to the 2nd division of the CC.

Not to mention that often a coache's job has been on the line in the CC.

I was watching a bit of the Cheetahs game with Strauss playing at hooker this morning. At one stage he looked like he was injured and I thought who the hell is going to Captain up North with JdV already 50/50.

I remember Kirchner played 13 against the Irish a few years back. From memory just about every possible 13 was injured and we had three wings left on tour. The initial idea was Habana at 13 but then the reserve wing went down. There was talk of Kankowski on the wing on the Friday because Habana had a niggle. We also had a situation one year where Botha, Matfield, and Rossouw were all injured after the cc final and we ended up playing with two untried locks for a couple of games.

The RC followed by three or four tough rounds of CC playoffs is just ridiculous. They typically get on the plane and head up north the Monday after the CC finals.

 

[Brisbok]

What an odd thing to say. Luck?

.............

The bottom line is there should be an elite roster of players and the Bok management call the shots of who plays and when but they cannot because a large part fo that players pay packet is footed by the Unions and once tests are over it is a free for all.

Agreed. The other odd question raised by MR was - "Did the players want to play?"

Since when did that become a deciding factor? Of course the players wanted to play. Players always want to play (unless the environment is toxic). It should never be up to the players to decide whether they want to play or not. There needs to be a much broader assessment into what's best for the team as well as what is best for the player medium to long term.

 

[JJJ]

I think if SARU made the boks unavailable for CC selection there'd be far more outraged howls at the devaluing of that august competition than there would be philosophical shrugs. From what I've read there's already a lot of resentment towards JON and SANZAR about the scheduling of superugby for that very reason. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

[Brisbok]

I think if SARU made the boks unavailable for CC selection there'd be far more outraged howls at the devaluing of that august competition than there would be philosophical shrugs. From what I've read there's already a lot of resentment towards JON and SANZAR about the scheduling of superugby for that very reason. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Yeah, no doubt. Very hard to win in everyone's eyes. I don't think there needs to be a blanket ban though. Each player should be assessed individually and people need to understand the resting of players for the greater good.

I'm sure Canterbury/Crusaders fans would like to see players like Carter and McCaw play in every ITM Cup and Super Rugby game, but that's not going to happen. You can't please everyone.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

What an odd thing to say. Luck?

Who else do you blame than management when an organisation is broken?

I am saying that the whole system is broken. Guess who runs it? SARU, a completely toothless organisation for so many reasons I'd derail the thread if I went into them.

The bottom line is there should be an elite roster of players and the Bok management call the shots of who plays and when but they cannot because a large part fo that players pay packet is footed by the Unions and once tests are over it is a free for all.

Because of 100 years of power bases that control rugby in SA this will never happen and they will not give the Boks the best possible chance.

Hey, I'm not denying SARU is broken & has been for some time.

Although test rugby is of course a step up and more rigorous, at the start of last weekend, the Bok team had been in SA for over a month, and in that time the players had played only 2 games - I don't really think playing some divisional rugby is going to be bad for the players. Helps keep them match fit.

The luck part is because you are linking the "rush back from the RC" and the injuries - which as per above I'm dubious about.

 

[Hawko]

Ah yeah sorry I see. We play a couple less tests than you guys so everything is just absolutely fine. How did I miss that?

This is a problem we have had for many years. Not a once off issue this year.

It has been well documented and is always a huge complaint of every Bok coach since readmission.

While Blue is highlighting that SA elite players are playing too much rugby without sufficient recovery time after tests, that is hardly very different to the injury situation in Oz where our elite players have played full Super campaigns followed by 10 SH tests and our best have been going down like flies. SARU might be dumber than the ARU, if you believe the level of outrage on the site, but I don't think there is very much in it. Because of the finances we are playing way too many test matches, picking the best availale team every time, and Super sides expect the elite guys to play virtually every minute (bet Pocock and Hooper don't get much rest next year).

I've gone on record for more than the last twelve months saying that we must forget about team management and now think squad management, so that the best team out of the total squad gets some rest during all the various competitions and doesn't end up getting a rest only when they go into rehab. To my knowledge NZ are the only team that try to do this and I would argue they could do it better.

Faumuina and Slipper both are starting this week. One because of a planned rotation (Franks is available but on the bench) and one because he's last man sanding. The Franks brothers and Crocket have rotated all year through the Super comp almost like clockwork (week 1: full game, week 2: subbed after 50, week 3: 30 off the bench.) Funny how all of them are currently available to play tests.

The difference between doing it in a planned way and doing it out of neceesity is plain for all to see. SARU and the ARU just don't get it yet. NZRU does.