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South Africa vs Italy, Durban

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Sidbarret

Fred Wood (13)
So the scrum got dicked?

Why do they persist with Jannie especially after a terrible season from him so far.



Scrum was excellent for the first half (helped by Bartolomi's yellow). Struggled in the second when Du Plessis was replaced by Oosthuizen and Castro came on for the Italians and gave Mtawarira a working over. Settled down again when Nyakane and Chilliboy came on late in the half.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Where can I watch this game? I can't find it or any of the US or Pacific nations games anywhere on Foxtel. It's shitting me.

In a side note, why the fuck are Italy picking Massi in a tournament like this where they need to be blooding youth. It's ridiculous and the man is too old to be a 15.
 

Hawko

Tony Shaw (54)
Its hard when the forward loosies tackle their bean off winning turn over ball only for the backs to go knock it due to trying to play at a high pace inside their own half.

Herein lies the problem for SA rugby. Its taken the Tahs almost a season to understand how to run the ball back at high pace inside their own half. I would argue (Chieka would too, I think) that they've still got a long way to go.

Only the Cheetahs have the faintest notion of what it means to play running rugby; all the other franchises persist with mindless kicking and so when the national team comes up against a lesser nation the backs do not have a clue how to do it. The Saffer coaches and fans pat themselves on the back and talk about the SA way.

Right now the young SA backs are a once-in-a-generation golden era. This is being totally squandered by the four franchise coaches who are training them to kick everything and chase like mad. Steyn is still considered to be the best 10 in SA for this very reason.

It takes time for backs to learn how to run the ball, to catch and pass without dropping it and to start to learn techniques like looping and angle running. You'll never do it in a three week national training camp. These skills have to be learned over at least a season and the young guys like Lambie and Jantjes have gone backward in their skills this year. SARU needs to find a way to change the national phobia about kick and chase or players like Serfontain, Englebrecht, Goosen et al will become just a bunch of chase and tackle merchants. That would be a terrible waste.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
What you describe is in the DNA. It's not going to get changed easily.

It will happen slowly. I know most people on this forum will dismiss it, but if you look at the way the Bulls are playing you can see a realisation that they have to use the talents of the players you mention. In most games even at Loftus the ball has gone through the hands early in the match. This would never have happened in the past but the coaches now trust the players outside Steyn (well, maybe just a bit). It will be a slow process though and will depend greatly on the 10 that replaces Steyn next year.

At the Sharks a wall to wall cleanout is needed from the top down. They are still playing the game plan invented in Durban in the nineties. Very little has changed. Lambie has had every bit of imagination coached out of his DNA. All he is required to do as a 10 is offload to the next forward runner and kick goals. What's most perplexing is that in the playoffs last year they started taking it wide but this year they put the whole thing back in a box.

The least willing to adapt has been the Stormers with Coetzee clinging to what worked in the 2007 World Cup. The basic philosophy has been that if nobody can score against us we only have to score a few points so we take zero risk in attack. It has literally been soul destroying for the likes of Jantjies. Coetzee will in all likelihood survive and continue to piss all the talent he has against the wall next year. He will just piss a different pattern.

Fundamentally we will always play a reasonably conservative plan in SA but it has to evolve. Whether Meyer has the nous and the will still remains to be seen.
 

Rassie

Trevor Allan (34)
Herein lies the problem for SA rugby. Its taken the Tahs almost a season to understand how to run the ball back at high pace inside their own half. I would argue (Chieka would too, I think) that they've still got a long way to go.

Only the Cheetahs have the faintest notion of what it means to play running rugby; all the other franchises persist with mindless kicking and so when the national team comes up against a lesser nation the backs do not have a clue how to do it. The Saffer coaches and fans pat themselves on the back and talk about the SA way.

Right now the young SA backs are a once-in-a-generation golden era. This is being totally squandered by the four franchise coaches who are training them to kick everything and chase like mad. Steyn is still considered to be the best 10 in SA for this very reason.

It takes time for backs to learn how to run the ball, to catch and pass without dropping it and to start to learn techniques like looping and angle running. You'll never do it in a three week national training camp. These skills have to be learned over at least a season and the young guys like Lambie and Jantjes have gone backward in their skills this year. SARU needs to find a way to change the national phobia about kick and chase or players like Serfontain, Englebrecht, Goosen et al will become just a bunch of chase and tackle merchants. That would be a terrible waste.
Let me explain you two things why we play like we play and why you play like you play.

First off all when we are in the exit zone we use our set piece possession to kick.
NZ and Australia will take it up first to set up a ruck in the middle then launch their kick and chase.

Reason why we do it at set pieces is to minimize errors (Schalk Burger WC quarter final remember?) and because we got a bigger pack of forwards. Big blokes which mean they also will burn more energy quicker than the bit smaller Aussie and Kiwi forwards.


Reason why Australia and Kiwi's run it up first before launching their kick and chase is to have both ends of the touchline to aim at and to drain the energy reserves from the opposing teams bigger forwards (that is us and England normally) before handing the ball over.

So you see there is other elements at play here which tactics will play a vital role.

Also that little law tweak in 2007 mean that we can't kick it directly out from set plays. We have to create space some other way for Steyn to kick in. Fourie Du Preez could kick to the wings so the wingers had to stay up and that created space for Steyn to kick in.

As you will note him gone we struggle as Hougaardt can't box kick and thus the wingers can help cover the back areas. Hence the illusion that Steyn looked out of form.
 
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