South Africa v Wales match thread

[RedsHappy]

TMO can check if a goal has gone over, but in this case one of the touch judges was directly behind the post in question and in a perfect position to make a call. I'm inclined to back that call, given none of the camera angles I've seen have given a better viewpoint than the one that touch judge had.

Not so sure, as are many in NZ today not so sure. Extraordinary that Barnes indicated that he'd get a TMO assessment then, in a flash, did not. Personally, I reckon it was likely the kick was good, but it's obvious ambiguity should have prompted Barnes to get a second opinion in a WC game. See:

Barnes blunder costs Wales shot at victory

Published: 6:59AM Monday September 12, 2011 Source: TVNZ, ONE Sport

The credentials of RWC referee Wayne Barnes are being called into question again after an inexplicable call during the down to the wire match between World Cup Rugby Champs South Africa and Wales in Wellington last night.

At the 15th minute, a penalty goal by fullback James Hook clearly goes between the uprights, just inside the right-hand side. Referee Wayne Barnes then indicated he was asking for a second opinion but then ruled play on, meaning it could not be made.

Assistant referees George Clancy and Vinny Munro had stood motionless, flags firmly by their sides. The Boks led 7-3 at that point and the decision was crucial and may have been the difference in the 17-16 victory to South Africa.

Fans on the sideline were seen with hands in the air appealing to the referee after the decision.

Later Hook said: "I was running back because obviously I thought it was over. If I was in any doubt I would have stayed there and watched it go over. Wayne Barnes was in the same position as me as well...

"He obviously didn't give it and I thought it was over so I thought that (ask the TMO) would be the best thing to do. Obviously not."

Wales coach Warren Gatland said: "I thought it was interesting at halftime when we went in the tunnel and as coaches we were saying we thought the kick went over and Francois Steyn walked past us and I said 'yeah I thought it went over as well'," Gatland said.

Watch the video.

ONE News presenter Peter Williams has watched the replay of the goal over and over today.

"What's not over about that goal?," he said. "The crowd knows it, the referee knows it. It's in by a metre. That's pathetic.

"Wayne Barnes stands in the middle of the park indicating we could have another look but then he doesn't have another look."

He said the call was grossly unfair because it will affect Wales' chances now throughout the tournament where they will likely finish second in their pool.

South Africa, world rugby's No 3 side eventually prevailed 17-16 over the Number 7 ranked nation.

The Springboks had started superbly with fullback Francois Steyn storming over but then Wales, who've only ever beaten the Boks once, took charge and edged ahead in the second half with a try to 20-year-old Tongan Toby Faletau.

Utility back, Francois Hougaard proved a super sub going over the line allowing the defending champions to grab back the lead with 15 minutes to go.

The Welsh missed a drop goal at that point so could have grabbed the match but it was the earlier sure goal by Hook that has them most upset.

Wales now face a must-win Pool D battle against the dangerous Samoans next Sunday in Hamilton while the Springboks face a rematch of their 2007 quarter-final when they face Fiji the day before in Wellington.

 

[proton]

both losers

 

[Toby Lerone]

Extraordinary that Barnes indicated that he'd get a TMO assessment then, in a flash, did not. Personally, I reckon it was likely the kick was good, but it's obvious ambiguity should have prompted Barnes to get a second opinion in a WC game. See:

Did he actually say he was going upstairs, or just the gesture when the camera looked at him. I thought initially that he was signalling for the TMO, but it was obvious looking again that he was signalling to the sideline that they needed a ball.

 

[Richo]

Or is it that the Kiwi press just wants to savage Barnes?

Perhaps he should have gone to the TMO, but the touchies were in absolutely prime position and one of them must have indicated that he was 100% sure.

 

[Blue]

Great game for intensity. Wellington was chock with Bok fans, yours truly included.

Great experience to be here in NZ for the cup. The Kiwis are doing a fantastic job.

SA were terrible. If the Welsh can't beat us playing this badly then fuckem, they have no right to complain about anything.

Wellington is a tough place to play when the weather turns sour and it was just that. Sheets of rain blowing accross the park at times and the wind all over the place.

The Boks toughed it out but the issues with our attack keep getting bigger and our kicking, a cornerstone of our game, was a horror to watch.

Frans Steyn was very good. Forget the one or two fumbles. It's the best test I have seen him play in yonks. Thank fuck he cut his hair. Now he can actually see. His defense was good and he was our only way out of our own half.

Jean de Villiers does nothing in attack. He carts the ball to the line (slowly) or throws a skip pass. Sad to say he must be dropped. He looks tentative.

Fourie du Preez is woefully out of form and looks like he avoids contact. He has had two shoulder ops and I am not surpised.

Matfield obviously came into the game carrying the hamstring injury.

Schalk Burger is a machine.

When Bismack and Alberts came on is when the game turned. They took away to Welsh dominance at the breakdown in an instant. Fucking brilliant. Our pack suddenly looked potent. Steenkamp also looked good.

We need to start these players:
Hougaard, James in place of M Steyn, Juan de Jongh, Aplon in place of Habana, Alberts in place of Spies. Steenkamp.

And of course the Battelship.

Will our coaches have the balls? History suggest that they don't.

Thank fark I didnlt travel all the way here to see a loss.

 

[cheezel]

Frans Steyn was very good. Forget the one or two fumbles. It's the best test I have seen him play in yonks.

Very impressed with Frans. I'm a big fan of his and thought he was on the outer. It was good to see him play well

 

[PaarlBok]

Blue

You summed it up well Blou, I thought we were gone in this one. Barnes was horseshit in this test. He havent had a clue at the breakdowns and scrums. Felt like he tried his best to give Wales this test and Smits lineout throws was woefull as I have ever seen. We got starved from possesion by Barnes and outr own captain. Brussouw and Schalkie played themself into the ground for 80 minutes.

Anyway its done and dusted and the perfect way this tough as nails pool matches. Wales sure as hell can play, they still lack it between the ears tho. Pretty sure they'll be back comes business end and for the Bokke, they need to go up from here. One game at a time.

 

[PaarlBok]

With Jean out I'll move Frans to his preffered 12 position and Lambie in 15.

 

[Blue]

With Jean out I'll move Frans to his preffered 12 position and Lambie in 15.

Agree. Get Pat to pop up in first receiver.

I saw Alberts and Bismarck in a coffee shop this morning. I said something to the tune of "Thank god you two came on, only should have been 60 minutes earlier."

They just smiled politely.

Saw Schalk this morning with Flo. Missed a photo opportunity but shook their hands. Schalk looked absolutely exhausted.

Also had a chat with Percy and Dick Muir. Fantastic guys. There were so many Saffers they couldn't walk 5 yards without someone wanting a photo.

People were lining the streets outside the team hotel to see the bus off to the stadium.

Great atmosphere. The Kiwis are doing a sensational job.

Now I am back in the office and need to catch up

 

[ACT Crusader]

Burger again showed why he is still a class player. Into almost everything and hit Welsh player after player when they had a roll on. Far and away my fave Bok player.

Roberts was excellent.

Phillips was extremely poor though. He lacked variation, was as slow as snails in clearing the ball, putting much unneeded pressure on the young 1st 5.

Hougard to start at 9 perhaps?

 

[Bowside]

If the bok were coached by deans, lambie would have been a regular for 2 seasons now. Hougaard is a great bench option.

 

[Blue]

If the bok were coached by deans, lambie would have been a regular for 2 seasons now. Hougaard is a great bench option.

Yeah we are just going no place at all with Steyn at 10.

I agree that Hougaard should stay on the bench. Super sub. Having said that he should start ahead of Habana.

 

[Scarfman]

Not that you need me to say it - but Steyne is the best goal kicker I've ever seen. Better than you know who. And, he's a better flyhalf as well.

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not Blue, but I would keep picking Steyne, but bring in some young blood in the forwards. You can run a slightly more open game plan, then, but still fairly 10-man oriented.

 

[Jnor]

Agree. Get Pat to pop up in first receiver.

I saw Alberts and Bismarck in a coffee shop this morning. I said something to the tune of "Thank god you two came on, only should have been 60 minutes earlier."

They just smiled politely.

Saw Schalk this morning with Flo. Missed a photo opportunity but shook their hands. Schalk looked absolutely exhausted.

Also had a chat with Percy and Dick Muir. Fantastic guys. There were so many Saffers they couldn't walk 5 yards without someone wanting a photo.

People were lining the streets outside the team hotel to see the bus off to the stadium.

Great atmosphere. The Kiwis are doing a sensational job.

Now I am back in the office and need to catch up

Is stalking legal in NZ, Blue?

 

[DPK]

I'm going to miss Schalk when he goes. He throws his frame around the field with such intensity, it's really something.

 

[whatty]

The way this WC is been reffed I would keep M.Steyn at 10 lambie at 15 and F.Steyn at 12 and Houghard in for Habana and from there can still be a back up for 9 and still have a 5/2 forward split on the bench.

 

[Blue]

Not that you need me to say it - but Steyne is the best goal kicker I've ever seen. Better than you know who. And, he's a better flyhalf as well.

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not Blue, but I would keep picking Steyne, but bring in some young blood in the forwards. You can run a slightly more open game plan, then, but still fairly 10-man oriented.

Nope I am being serious. He has no peer in terms of goal kicking but his kicking out of hand has been average, his defense is crap and the only attacking structure he understand is when he climbs into the eggs and bacon over brekkie.

I'll be okay if he stays at ten but if we don't start Battleship and Alberts we may as well give up now.

And I pray that Butch James doesn't start at 12.

 

[Blue]

Is stalking legal in NZ, Blue?

Lol I ended up in the same hotel by accident so I saw the players quite a bit.

Too late now I am back in Aus but they may extradite me. I won't mind, as long as they give me some match tickets.

 

[Blue]

I'm going to miss Schalk when he goes. He throws his frame around the field with such intensity, it's really something.

Reckon he has a good chance to take over Bok captaincy and has another World Cup in him if his body holds up which is questionable seeing as he apparently doesn't care much for it

 

[Lee Grant]

I'm going to miss Schalk when he goes. He throws his frame around the field with such intensity, it's really something.

Agree with that. Sometimes he seems like he's on the edge of madness - or even beyond it.

Then you get guys who are more skilled than he is and wait for others to do the work and you feel like shaking them and telling them to watch Schalk Burger as the model of what to do.

Doesn't matter what team you follow - the vanilla guys annoy me.