Smit reappointed captain

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Not sure if this is anywhere else on the board, but it looks like John Smit will lead the Boks into the test season and RWC

http://www.timeslive.co.za/sport/rugby/article1047536.ece/John-Smits-second-hurrah

That is an interesting call, IMHO.

 

[Ham]

Well good news for us. I think Bismark would offer a lot more than Smit to the Boks starting side. The less said about Smit at prop the better.

 

[Sully]

I think it's a huge mistake.

 

[qwerty51]

Incredible, he wouldn't even make their 2nd string team imo.

Good for us of course.

Hey, we can hardly talk though, Elsom is our captain. Yet to even put boots on in 2011.

 

[PaarlBok]

We have a history of captain politics going into WC tournaments.
1995 Tiaan Strauss & Francois Pienaar
1999 Teichman & Skinstadt saga

We had the same thing in 2007 between Battleship and Smit, it worked out pretty well and the position is exactly the same. Myself dont want to feel that 1999 one ever again, so John Smit the right pick for me. More important is the appointment of Derick Coetzee and Rassie. Derick sure as hell will have our Bok players, old age or not in peak condition comes WC time and Rassie will give direction to the gameplan we need to follow. Been there, done that and class is permanent, form not.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

But don't you think that Smit is a little past it now Paarl? He's not the best or probably even the second best hooker in RSA and there are even more props ahead of him. To my mind, you want a captain whose place in the team is absolutely unquestioned. I don't know that Smit's place is these days. Don't get me wrong, I think the bloke is in the top half dozen test captains I've ever seen and one of the better hookers in the last decade. I just don't think he justifies his place any more.

 

[PaarlBok]

But don't you think that Smit is a little past it now Paarl? He's not the best or probably even the second best hooker in RSA and there are even more props ahead of him. To my mind, you want a captain whose place in the team is absolutely unquestioned. I don't know that Smit's place is these days. Don't get me wrong, I think the bloke is in the top half dozen test captains I've ever seen and one of the better hookers in the last decade. I just don't think he justifies his place any more.

Was the same in the 2007 tournament and also at the Sharks. Nick Mallet threw Teich away in 1999 and it cost us heavily. This desicion was made when Snor took over and no way he'll change this now. Smit did not look bad the last two weekends. Pretty sure Battleship needs a bit of a break after this weekend. Smits pick is more then just to be the best in his position. I can live with it.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Fair enough and for the record I agree about Teichmann. That bloke was quality.

I think that PdV is making a mistake in picking a guy to be captain at the wrong end of his career, but that's just me I guess. I agree with the other guys, it improves our chances.

 

[PaarlBok]

Fair enough and for the record I agree about Teichmann. That bloke was quality.

I think that PdV is making a mistake in picking a guy to be captain at the wrong end of his career, but that's just me I guess. I agree with the other guys, it improves our chances.

You lot can agree as much as you like, still some way to go to the tournament. The 2003 England team was much older then our current lot. Pretty sure the WC will ignite the Bok old age home and turn them in a different kind of animal. This time they hope for a luckier draw then last time.

Will be interesting to see the route our coaches go with the Tri Nations. Pretty sure Derick Coetzee will want to withdraw them at some stage to recondition them for the WC tournament like in 2007.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

That England team were also playing the best footy of any team going into that tournament in 2003. They were a settled, battle hardened unit that were well captained and well coached. Had they not won the tournament that year I would have been flabbergasted. I don't understand the remark about a luckier draw, you guys got a great run through the tournament and won the whole thing. I'm not sure how you can improve on that? Unless you are talking about 2003, when you would have improved your chances by knocking off the Poms in the group stage.

 

[Lee Grant]

Agree with Smit being the captain though I wouldn't have been last year when he was grossly overweight, whatever the official version of what his weight was.

This year he looks fit and he's been playing well as hooker IMO. BdP is a hard player but he is a nutter and attracts penalties. That he is likely to be overlooked for Smit is his own fault.

Having Smit as captain and playing well for the Sharks is a big plus for the Boks - and yes, I do watch the same games as others do.

 

[qwerty51]

BdP is a genuine flanker. There's absolutely no way Smit is currently better than him. But in some ways, with the captaincy it could be a better decision to have him at hooker. But who says he's even the hooker? Could be the prop like in the Lions series. That did work out after all.

 

[Blue]

BdP is a genuine flanker. There's absolutely no way Smit is currently better than him. But in some ways, with the captaincy it could be a better decision to have him at hooker. But who says he's even the hooker? Could be the prop like in the Lions series. That did work out after all.

The Bok management have said over and over that Smit will only prop in an emergency. It is unlikely he will ever start a Bok test again at prop.

I agree with Lee. Last year I was all for him retiring. This year he has been looking better and better with every match. His mobility has been a lot better.

Whilst du Plessis is an all round better player, he is a penalty magnet.

So much has been invested in Smit and his leadership that I can understand why he is being backed as captain. I don't really agree, but see the logic.

And I disagree with respect to it increasing the chances of other teams. PdV has appointed one of the best rugby conditioners in the world with immediate effect. Smit will be fit, play 50-60 minutes and then Bismarck comes on. Not ideal, but will work.

Besides. Thsi is not what will determine if we do well. The following are WAY bigger issues.
1. What to do with the back row. Spies crap. Juan injured. Alberts? Brussow? Play both Bruss and Burger together? Who at 8 if not Spies?
2. Bakkies and Victor's fitness and pace around the park.
3. Steyn or LAmbie at 10?
4. Makeup of the back 3?

Those issues are much more of a concern than Smit.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Blue, you are right that a couple of those other issues are bigger, especially about the back row and the locks. However, don't you want your captain out on the pitch for the full 80?

And BTW, I am not suggesting the Boks problems are any bigger than ours. We have a few issues of our own, like the fact that our own captain hasn't played a single minute of footy this year. That worries the hell out of me.

 

[Scotty]

There doesn't seem to be many 80 minute hookers anymore though, does there? So it is unlikely that Smit will be there at the end of most matches, particularly with the impact the Boks will have from the bench.

I am also not convinced with Matfield as a captain, who will likely now have to play 80 and lead during the last 10-15.

Why not have someone like Burger as vc?

 

[PaarlBok]

That England team were also playing the best footy of any team going into that tournament in 2003. They were a settled, battle hardened unit that were well captained and well coached. Had they not won the tournament that year I would have been flabbergasted. I don't understand the remark about a luckier draw, you guys got a great run through the tournament and won the whole thing. I'm not sure how you can improve on that? Unless you are talking about 2003, when you would have improved your chances by knocking off the Poms in the group stage.

Nah the draw one is for the Kiwis who still throw that one in. Pretty sure we havent see this best of this Bok team yet, they were pretty dominate in 2009 and fell away in 2010 but nothing will stop them returning to their 2009 form. Snor gets a lot of flak and probably deservingly but he did one thing right. Myself expected hm back when he started to start fresh with 15 qouta players. He sure did his best to take the 2007 Bokke further into this 2011 cycle. Jake White would not have done anothing different, maybe wont have picked Heinrich Brussouw in the process.

@ Skotman: Matfield obvious more senior and experienced in the Bok group. Pretty sure there are more then one vc in the group and Matfield probably will lead when Smit isnt playing. Myself is sure we'll have the Burger Bekker Rassie show after the 2011 WC tournament.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I think what would stop the Bok team from being like their 2009 selves is the march of time, especially in the pack. A few of those blokes aren't getting any younger or any faster. But I guess we'll see eh?

 

[da_grubster]

Nah the draw one is for the Kiwis who still throw that one in. Pretty sure we havent see this best of this Bok team yet, they were pretty dominate in 2009 and fell away in 2010 but nothing will stop them returning to their 2009 form. Snor gets a lot of flak and probably deservingly but he did one thing right. Myself expected hm back when he started to start fresh with 15 qouta players. He sure did his best to take the 2007 Bokke further into this 2011 cycle. Jake White would not have done anothing different, maybe wont have picked Heinrich Brussouw in the process.

@ Skotman: Matfield obvious more senior and experienced in the Bok group. Pretty sure there are more then one vc in the group and Matfield probably will lead when Smit isnt playing. Myself is sure we'll have the Burger Bekker Rassie show after the 2011 WC tournament.

I know you are a big support of P Divvy but I think that is a stretch even for you to say that you will see the best of these boks this year! This does remind me alot of NZ in '91, mgmt holding on to senior players for too long and got found out by a younger Australian team. Sure we were streetwise, hard to beat and still a decent side but not a patch on what we were in 87-89. They had a few scares in 1990 where performances dropped off and losses started creeping in to a all conquering team, we also had captaincy issues with Buck being replaced.

Of course they were still a chance to win it but ultimately were not good enough.

I will be surprised if the boks fare any better to be honest.

Keeping Smit primarily for his captaincy and then subbing him off in knockout matches at the 60 minute mark will be a touch call to make.

 

[PaarlBok]

I know you are a big support of P Divvy but I think that is a stretch even for you to say that you will see the best of these boks this year! This does remind me alot of NZ in '91, mgmt holding on to senior players for too long and got found out by a younger Australian team. Sure we were streetwise, hard to beat and still a decent side but not a patch on what we were in 87-89. They had a few scares in 1990 where performances dropped off and losses started creeping in to a all conquering team, we also had captaincy issues with Buck being replaced.

Of course they were still a chance to win it but ultimately were not good enough.

I will be surprised if the boks fare any better to be honest.

Keeping Smit primarily for his captaincy and then subbing him off in knockout matches at the 60 minute mark will be a touch call to make.

Wow Hello Grabbie, long time no see and glad to hear from you. Wish I can turn back the clock to 2007 when we had the exact same problem and question regarding the Smit or Battleship one. Nothing have change and geuss we would see if this is the right desicion or not. Like I qouted earlier we are use to have the WC politics syndrome every time when the tournament get closer. The scoreboard still reads 2 from 4 and only a few WC losses since readmission, by far the best results for any country participating. Good sign this.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I think what this discussion highlights is that winning two RWC's on the trot is a bloody hard thing to do. The window opens and then close pretty quickly. No winning team has realistically got close to doing it, appearances in finals notwithstanding. We weren't good enough to be world champions again in 2003 and neither were England in 2007. You could say the same for NZ in 1991 and arguably the Boks in 1999 too.