Six Nations 2015

[the plastic paddy]

I wouldn't worry, we had Kidney and we survived through that. Only seven more months just keep that thought close. I can't think of one player outside of Wilko and the Armitage's who has really gone to France and stepped up his game another level from UK/Ireland. Sexton arguably has slightly improved his tactical kicking. A lot seem to go over there and on the whole suffer a huge form dip.

Is that Declan Kidney who coached Ireland to a Grand Slam and a group win at a rwc? When Schmidt wins a Grand Slam he will be on a par with Ireland's greatest ever coach. Schmidt is a hell of a coach but DK was far from being the shambolic figure that many of the D4 media would have people believe. DK did not make the DJ and BOD stamp on fellas chests.

 

[the plastic paddy]

It's down to Gatland & his team conditioning wise. Lower level rugby in Wales is on its arse - team Wales is the only thing that matters to the WRU.
Tactically though they're all over the place, everyone in world rugby knows how we play & how to combat it.
There's no plan B as everyone knows but it's selection that really irks me. Several of Gatland's main players are hopelessly out of form - Cuthbert has been woefully bad all season, Jon Davies has hardly played out in France for Clermont. Lydiate has only played a handful of games without shinning in any of them.
But it seems however poorly any of these guys or others are playing they're guaranteed a starting spot.
Losing interest slowly which is sad for a patriotic Welshman

The fall out when Gatland goes will be spectacular. I thought his criticism of Webb and Hibbard straight after the game was terrible man management. He is so pig headed I could see him continuing to leave out Bandy legs and Scott Williams. That was as thick a Welsh performance as I think I have seen.

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

Is that Declan Kidney who coached Ireland to a Grand Slam and a group win at a rwc? When Schmidt wins a Grand Slam he will be on a par with Ireland's greatest ever coach. Schmidt is a hell of a coach but DK was far from being the shambolic figure that many of the D4 media would have people believe. DK did not make the DJ and BOD stamp on fellas chests.

Ah now. Under him we finished 5th in the 6N in a year 7 months after Leinster won their third HC in four years, Ulster were finalists in the HC and even the Munster lads were doing alright. I've never seen a period where we had such in form players yet we lost to Italy away, England at home, Scotland away and drew with the French at home.

He wasn't cut out for it, maybe a lot of the law changes and forwards aging at the time played a role, but a lot of teams figured us out and the players seemed unhappy under him. He was a decent guy though, I don't agree with the s*** he took off the media all done and dusted. Kidney is to be head coach at L. Irish next season apparently.

 

[Bardon]

Kidney was an excellent coach for Ireland but like Eddie O'Sullivan before him the end wasn't so good. The same may happen to Schmidt some day too.

No matter how the end was Ireland owes a lot to Kidney and the same can be said for Wales and Gatland. However past success isn't a free pass from criticism and if Gatland doesn't deliver in the RWC the calls for a fresh perspective will only get louder.

 

[the plastic paddy]

Ah now. Under him we finished 5th in the 6N in a year 7 months after Leinster won their third HC in four years, Ulster were finalists in the HC and even the Munster lads were doing alright. I've never seen a period where we had such in form players yet we lost to Italy away, England at home, Scotland away and drew with the French at home.

He wasn't cut out for it, maybe a lot of the law changes and forwards aging at the time played a role, but a lot of teams figured us out and the players seemed unhappy under him. He was a decent guy though, I don't agree with the s*** he took off the media all done and dusted. Kidney is to be head coach at L. Irish next season apparently.

The injury list was biblical. POM ended up playing on the wing in that Italy game. And it didn't help that BOD and Healy both got banned for dirty play. Ireland were 30 points up at halftime in Cardiff in the first game of DK's last six nations in 2013. The players just downed tools, nothing DK could do about it. The Leinster lads wanted Schmidt in charge. To be fair Schmidt is a superb coach and DK had clearly lost the Leinster players in the dressing room so it was time to call it a day, but until Schmidt wins a GS he will be behind DK who also won 2 HECs the same as Schmidt, Cheika won one of them.

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

The injury list was biblical. POM ended up playing on the wing in that Italy game. And it didn't help that BOD and Healy both got banned for dirty play. Ireland were 30 points up at halftime in Cardiff in the first game of DK's last six nations in 2013. The players just downed tools, nothing DK could do about it. The Leinster lads wanted Schmidt in charge. To be fair Schmidt is a superb coach and DK had clearly lost the Leinster players in the dressing room so it was time to call it a day, but until Schmidt wins a GS he will be behind DK who also won 2 HECs the same as Schmidt, Cheika won one of them.

I reckon a lot of the crap Kidney got came about due to the success of the provinces being off the charts during the same period. His results after the world cup were average but with Ulster and Leinster on the rise a lot of the part time fans got on his back.

I wonder where he'll sit as a manager in our history. I'd put EOS as our best ever manager (as in nationality and who managed the team). I really wish one of the provinces would pick him up but I sense he's not too fond of the IRFU and vice versa. He'd be suited for Ulster in particular.

 

[the plastic paddy]

Schmidt has made Ireland the priority this year, with inter pros being played without first team players. I think that is fair enough in a rwc year but such control was not afforded Kidney and he consequently had to deal with nightmarish injury lists. He also had to go to NZ, in June 2012, with a team who had been playing for two years without a break. Calling up Paddy Wallace from the beach was a mistake but Ireland, in spite of all the issues got as close to NZ, in the second test, as Schmidt's team in November 2014. The third test was a nightmare but Ireland were dead on their feet by that stage. The next two games will tell us whether all that access to players and extra rest and conditioning has Ireland on track.

 

[Llew]

WRU are claiming the knock that lead to George Norths second nap was unsighted at the time - hard to believe given the number of times it was replayed. Did they not ask him what happened? I he had no idea surely a bad sign.

Samson Lee also concussed - will cement head ask Adam Jones to return to the fold? Unlikely.

 

[Bardon]

When it comes to player welfare I'd prefer that Unions or teams not make excuses. They should hold their hand up and say we made a mistake and we'll do better next time.

Players themselves don't take concussion seriously, as evidenced by the way they try to cheat their base tests. Concussion is a ticking time bomb for Rugby and there are two approaches the sport can take. There the current approach that sees players who are clearly concussed playing on in high profile games and doesn't seem to be working.

Alternatively Rugby could really put player welfare at the heart of a drive to protect them from concussion. Have retired players who are suffering long term problems due to concussions come in and talk to players before the season starts. The attitude of the players needs to change, it'll take time and we won't do it overnight but we need to start now.

Ask anyone or their families if they'd rather have a big settlement against World Rugby or have the for the player to not have those problems and not many would pick option one.

 

[KevinO]

When it comes to player welfare I'd prefer that Unions or teams not make excuses. They should hold their hand up and say we made a mistake and we'll do better next time.

Players themselves don't take concussion seriously, as evidenced by the way they try to cheat their base tests. Concussion is a ticking time bomb for Rugby and there are two approaches the sport can take. There the current approach that sees players who are clearly concussed playing on in high profile games and doesn't seem to be working.

Alternatively Rugby could really put player welfare at the heart of a drive to protect them from concussion. Have retired players who are suffering long term problems due to concussions come in and talk to players before the season starts. The attitude of the players needs to change, it'll take time and we won't do it overnight but we need to start now.

Ask anyone or their families if they'd rather have a big settlement against World Rugby or have the for the player to not have those problems and not many would pick option one.

The concussion test is the problem, the brain is divided and it all depends on the contact area. If you get hit on the front left you will fail a concussion test, hit on the front right and you will probably pass (George Smith example). Back of the head all depends on impact force. The doctors don't get to look at where the impact is and say sorry I don't care if you passed your not going back on.

 

[the plastic paddy]

I think the day is coming when the players will just come off and that will be it. Tragically I think it will take a fatality for that to happen. As someone said about North, if that was a world championship boxing bout the fight would have been stopped there and then. Have to say, the claims that the management/ medical teams were unsighted begs the question whether they think the millions of viewers of the game were born yesterday. Much better to admit they fucked up and they are sorry.

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

On boards.ie a poster said that an old school mate of theirs is in a coma now from a concussion. He played on after the head knock on felt fine, went home and fell unconscious. Hope the poor lad will be alright.

 

[Gnostic]

Two years ago I suggested that Wales had gone as far as they could under Gatland. The Gatland game plan is limited and much like the old White plan with the Bok, it was dominant for a while but teams began to work them out. Both plans also relied heavily on the personnel in the squad and particular skills. For example when Habana was injured the Bok lost their dominant chaser and the game plan became far less effective. IMO the ageing of a couple of Welsh stalwarts such as Jones/s, Roberts, and Phillips, which Gatland has recognised well and had a clear succession plan in place to cover, compromised the effectiveness of Warrenball. But even more the opposition know exactly what is going to happen at each phase and even if Wales execute very well a good opposition is able to cover. In short they are totally predictable, and have less improvement in them under Gatland than any other side in the 6N bar Italy. Certainly less than the others sides in their RWC group.
It is the reason that even with the worst Wallabies sides since professionalism Wales have failed to win while England, Ireland, Samoa and Scotland have managed to achieve the result, sometimes convincingly. Some will point to the closeness of the Wales V Wallabies games, but IMO this is an obscuring fact rather than a determining fact, much as many of the Wallabies victories since 2009 covered the issues inherent in the side.

 

[Llew]

Who would be the best replacement for Gatland?

 

[Highlander35]

Scott Johnson.

 

[Quick Hands]

Who would be the best replacement for Gatland?

Is there no coach in rugby mad Wales considered capable of coaching the national team?

 

[mxyzptlk]

And at least Haskell has the potential to something really stupid

Just catching up with this thread. He didn't say anything too stupid, but he did get tackled by an inanimate object.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Same old Warrenball no plan B. Wales really need to find a second playmaker in their back line. No impact off their bench either

 

[Gnostic]

Who would be the best replacement for Gatland?

There are plenty of coaches around with International test experience, or have been assistants.

The number of replacements is not my argument. The fact they have nobody bashing the door down to replace him isn't the argument for replacement. It is the fact that the side has not improved or developed any variation or depth to the way they play since 2008-2009. The fact that since that time the Wallabies have fielded the most inconsistent and arguably some of the worst sides in the pro-era (in terms of performance) and yet the results have remained the same, with the games being played and lost in the same manner.

If you can show me how Gatland has developed the Welsh game beyond what we saw in 2008-2009 I will concede. By that I don't mean the introduction of some new faces, which as I said he has planned very well for with those retirements mentioned.

 

[Llew]

There are plenty of coaches around with International test experience, or have been assistants.

The number of replacements is not my argument. The fact they have nobody bashing the door down to replace him isn't the argument for replacement. It is the fact that the side has not improved or developed any variation or depth to the way they play since 2008-2009. The fact that since that time the Wallabies have fielded the most inconsistent and arguably some of the worst sides in the pro-era (in terms of performance) and yet the results have remained the same, with the games being played and lost in the same manner.

If you can show me how Gatland has developed the Welsh game beyond what we saw in 2008-2009 I will concede. By that I don't mean the introduction of some new faces, which as I said he has planned very well for with those retirements mentioned.

I don't disagree with you Gnostic, just asking for people's thoughts on potential replacements! Sheesh!