Six Nations 2014

[the plastic paddy]

Was 2010 the year that o gara went on his lunatic one man rush defence? Or was that earlier. It ll be interesting in midfield. If they do drift they'll have to be careful when doc jaw changes his angles. Mind he only managed it once last week. Is o Connell over his gastro?

Chest infection but apparently fit to train on Tuesday. Is Roberts ok? Thought he took a knock.

 

[Lindommer]

Can one of the northern boys please explain how Wales can play so well in the 6N while the Welsh teams are crap in the HEC and rarely win the Pro12. Conversely, why Ireland's three best teams mostly feature in the business end of the HEC and often lead the Pro12 table yet its 6N tallies in professional rugby are way behind Wales's. How many HECs have the Welsh won? How many finals have the two countries' teams played in?

 

[terry j]

managed to catch the replays due to someones heads up in this thread (thanks! forget who but appreciated)

I noticed a few times in scrums that the ref did not seem to call out 'put the ball in' but rather indicated when to do so by some other means, a nod, a touch on the back, whatever.

That was 'one of the objections' IIRC last year to the new rules, disadvantaging the hooking side.

Was that just a quirk of the refs or is it more official?

 

[JSRF10]

Can one of the northern boys please explain how Wales can play so well in the 6N while the Welsh teams are crap in the HEC and rarely win the Pro12. Conversely, why Ireland's three best teams mostly feature in the business end of the HEC and often lead the Pro12 table yet its 6N tallies in professional rugby are way behind Wales's. How many HECs have the Welsh won? How many finals have the two countries' teams played in?

Its an enigma, I'd put the Welsh performance due to the fact that they are playing for artificial teams with no history and no supporters. The Irish players are playing for provinces that have 100+ of history and a real connection with their fans. The 3 Irish provinces would easy be in the top 10 in Europe for average attendance over the course of a season.

Wales have won zero Heineken Cups and one Amlin Cup (2nd tier European comp), and have had one final appearance. Ireland have 6 Heineken Cups, one Amlin Cup and 3 losing Heineken Cup final appearances.

If you look at overall wins in the 6 nations Ireland were leading it in the first 10 years, their lack of championships was due to a mental block against France. A couple of years of regression under Kidney has reversed that now but hopefully we are getting back on track. Overall match wins in the 6 nations are similar for Ireland and Wales, however Wales have more championships due to the boom and bust nature of their team. Lets not forget Gatland was close to getting the chop in 2011 after 3 miserable years for Wales, he gambled on backing his untried youngsters and it the rest is history as they say.

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

The HC has been going in some format for 18 years, Welsh teams have reached the 1/4 finals 18 times, semis 7 times and final once.
the Pro 12 has been played 12 times Ospreys have won it 4 times (most by any team) and Scarlets once. Cardiff have been runners up twice and Neath once.
Ireland are 3rd on six nations all-time table ahead of Wales who are 4th.
In actual six nations tournaments (where all six nations have competed) Wales have won the tournament 4 times out of 14 and Ireland once but Ireland have finished higher than Wales in every tournament that Wales have not won - so 10 times out of 14.

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

Its an enigma, I'd put the Welsh performance due to the fact that they are playing for artificial teams with no history and no supporters. The Irish players are playing for provinces that have 100+ of history and a real connection with their fans. The 3 Irish provinces would easy be in the top 10 in Europe for average attendance over the course of a season.

Wales have won zero Heineken Cups and one Amlin Cup (2nd tier European comp), and have had one final appearance. Ireland have 6 Heineken Cups, one Amlin Cup and 3 losing Heineken Cup final appearances.

If you look at overall wins in the 6 nations Ireland were leading it in the first 10 years, their lack of championships was due to a mental block against France. A couple of years of regression under Kidney has reversed that now but hopefully we are getting back on track. Overall match wins in the 6 nations are similar for Ireland and Wales, however Wales have more championships due to the boom and bust nature of their team. Lets not forget Gatland was close to getting the chop in 2011 after 3 miserable years for Wales, he gambled on backing his untried youngsters and it the rest is history as they say.

Having only been a spectator in Limerick I cant say if its like playing at Thomond when there is 20,000+ but playing at the Gnoll or Stradley park against with a few thousand felt like just a many were in the stands.

 

[JSRF10]

Having only been a spectator in Limerick I cant say if its like playing at Thomond when there is 20,000+ but playing at the Gnoll or Stradley park against with a few thousand felt like just a many were in the stands.

Maybe in days gone by but most Welsh grounds currently seem like a morgue these days. The worst thing the Ospreys, Cardiff and Scarlets did was move into stadia which were 4 times larger than their average crowd. Nothing kills an atmosphere quicker than empty seats.

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

Maybe in days gone by but most Welsh grounds currently seem like a morgue these days. The worst thing the Ospreys, Cardiff and Scarlets did was move into stadia which were 4 times larger than their average crowd. Nothing kills an atmosphere quicker than empty seats.

Yeah McDiarmid used to be virtually silent and the least said about the gunners home games the better!

The problem is rugby in Scotland is a minority sport and a large amount of people that would watch a Pro12 or HC game live a decent amount of time from the ground (if a Friday or Sunday kick-off) or are playing on the Saturday.

 

[Bardon]

managed to catch the replays due to someones heads up in this thread (thanks! forget who but appreciated)

I noticed a few times in scrums that the ref did not seem to call out 'put the ball in' but rather indicated when to do so by some other means, a nod, a touch on the back, whatever.

That was 'one of the objections' IIRC last year to the new rules, disadvantaging the hooking side.

Was that just a quirk of the refs or is it more official?

It's something that was changed without a big fanfare about a month ago and was used in the HEC games in January and all subsequent games.

The reason was because an unintentional consequence of the ref telling the scrumhalf to feed by saying "yes 9" was that the opposition took this as their cue to push. As they were pushing before the ball came in the destabilised the scrum just as the hooker was lifting his leg to hook.

Now the ref gives a non verbal indication. When he's on the same side of the scrum he'll tap the scrumhalf and when on the opposite side he'll give a hand signal.

This has been a fantastic change in my opinion. The scrum is more stable, teams are able to hook and even try to hook against the head.

 

[Bardon]

Yeah McDiarmid used to be virtually silent and the least said about the gunners home games the better!

The problem is rugby in Scotland is a minority sport and a large amount of people that would watch a Pro12 or HC game live a decent amount of time from the ground (if a Friday or Sunday kick-off) or are playing on the Saturday.

Even though it would be to the detriment of Irish Rugby in the short term I'd love to see a true resurgence in Scottish Rugby both in the provinces and at test level. It's not in anyone's long term interests to have non-competitive teams and empty stadia.

If I was in the IRFU I'd be trying to share as much best practice with the other Pro12 nations. Better organisation and more competition all round is in everyone's interests.

 

[daz]

Very much enjoying the 6N so far. One of my favourite tournaments, without a doubt.

And any game that ends with England getting done at the death is a very good game indeed.

 

[Bardon]

Regarding the Ireland v Wales in the 6Ns as JFRS has pointed out we've finished above Wales most years. But we've failed to win the championship on many occasions leading to us finishing 2nd more than any other nation.

Especially during Eddie O'Sullivan's reign where we blew many chances and seemed happy to win the triple crown while being beaten by France pretty much every year before we even went on to the field.

Including this year Ireland have won the same number of games as England in the 6Ns (47) and 1 less than France. However Ireland only have 1 championship to 5 for France and 4 for England.

Wales have only won 37 games in the 6Ns but they've been very economical winning 4 titles including 3 Grand Slams. For the most part in the 6Ns era Wales have either won the championship or been terrible.

But ask anyone and they'd prefer the titles to the win record.

 

[Bardon]

Ireland v Wales should be a cracker. I hope that the animosity that's existed over the last few years is dispensed with and we can go back to a friendly rivalry. Wales fans are normally great to be around before and after the game win or lose and are very similar to we Irish.

 

[JSRF10]

Ireland v Wales should be a cracker. I hope that the animosity that's existed over the last few years is dispensed with and we can go back to a friendly rivalry. Wales fans are normally great to be around before and after the game win or lose and are very similar to we Irish.

I think on the pitch its a friendly rivalry, these players see a lot of each other through Pro12, Heineken Cup and many would have built up good relations on Lions tours.

I think the media like to go a bit overboard on its mainly stemming from Gatland still being bitter over the manner of his sacking from the IRFU and throwing a few verbal hand grenades in. Social media has added the lunatic fringe on both sides getting their voices heard as well which is annoying and unfortunate.

 

[Wales Fan]

I think on the pitch its a friendly rivalry, these players see a lot of each other through Pro12, Heineken Cup and many would have built up good relations on Lions tours.

I think the media like to go a bit overboard on its mainly stemming from Gatland still being bitter over the manner of his sacking from the IRFU and throwing a few verbal hand grenades in. Social media has added the lunatic fringe on both sides getting their voices heard as well which is annoying and unfortunate.

Spot on, I don't think the animosity supposedly between the sides has ever been there. Most of it has come from the media and of course Gatland (rightly or wrongly) who seems to love throwing hand-grenades into situations to stir things up !
As for the game, Wales are struggling a little, looking lethargic & disorganized against Italy. Too many players playing on reputation at the moment with little form or rugby behind them. Jonathan Davies has played 40minutes for the Scarlets and Warburton the last 20 for Wales at the weekend. I'd bet Gatland will start them both against Ireland, he clearly doesn't believe in match-fitness.
Ireland looking stronger, especially upfront last week.
Ireland by 10 for me this week. (hope not though !)

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

[the plastic paddy]

Can one of the northern boys please explain how Wales can play so well in the 6N while the Welsh teams are crap in the HEC and rarely win the Pro12. Conversely, why Ireland's three best teams mostly feature in the business end of the HEC and often lead the Pro12 table yet its 6N tallies in professional rugby are way behind Wales's. How many HECs have the Welsh won? How many finals have the two countries' teams played in?

I think a lot of it comes down to belief. In the business end of the HEC which is as close as you can get in the NH to test rugby, the Munster lads and the Leinster lads have long since crossed the line from trying not to lose the game to trying to win it. It is a vital definition. It is one thing I hope to see from Schmidt and I thought the second half improvement against the Scots was very positive in that regard.

 

[the plastic paddy]

In terms of Wales V Ireland the teams are incredibly close even if Wales have shaded more games than Ireland. In terms of the Welsh regions, I genuinely don't think the welsh lads care as much and save themselves for the national team. Last season a Cardiff team containing many of their Lions and internationals had 59 points put on it by Leinster. Sad to report that the weather forecast for Saturday is completely horrific which might go some way to destroying the spectacle, fingers crossed they have it wrong.

 

[Cardiffblue]

Can one of the northern boys please explain how Wales can play so well in the 6N while the Welsh teams are crap in the HEC and rarely win the Pro12. Conversely, why Ireland's three best teams mostly feature in the business end of the HEC and often lead the Pro12 table yet its 6N tallies in professional rugby are way behind Wales's. How many HECs have the Welsh won? How many finals have the two countries' teams played in?

Might be because most of cementhead's diaspora XV ply their trade outside of the homeland whereas the Irish don't

 

[Cardiffblue]

In terms of Wales V Ireland the teams are incredibly close even if Wales have shaded more games than Ireland. In terms of the Welsh regions, I genuinely don't think the welsh lads care as much and save themselves for the national team. Last season a Cardiff team containing many of their Lions and internationals had 59 points put on it by Leinster. Sad to report that the weather forecast for Saturday is completely horrific which might go some way to destroying the spectacle, fingers crossed they have it wrong.

Hope it doesn't come down to a kick fest in the rain. I think wales will be better for last weekend. What worries me is not so much the forwards but that if we are up inthe closing minutes we still haven't developed the tactical nous to close the game down. Priestland is likely to screw up. Have seen it happen a few times, like every time we play Australia!

 

[Cardiffblue]

Spot on, I don't think the animosity supposedly between the sides has ever been there. Most of it has come from the media and of course Gatland (rightly or wrongly) who seems to love throwing hand-grenades into situations to stir things up !
As for the game, Wales are struggling a little, looking lethargic & disorganized against Italy. Too many players playing on reputation at the moment with little form or rugby behind them. Jonathan Davies has played 40minutes for the Scarlets and Warburton the last 20 for Wales at the weekend. I'd bet Gatland will start them both against Ireland, he clearly doesn't believe in match-fitness.
Ireland looking stronger, especially upfront last week.
Ireland by 10 for me this week. (hope not though !)

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

This bod vs cement beat up is getting on my tits