Shute Shield 2025

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Might be back? Gone to the MLR right? Half expect him to be with some other nation in 7s soon enough.

Eastwood have the ever exciting tones of Anthony Griffin now as Director right? Has he had much Rugby experience? A lot of footy knowledge though and a lot of time in Q Cup prior to the NRL which could be good for Club Rugby.

 

[wamberal99]

If I hear anything I will post it. BTW we have a Colts side playing in South Africa at the moment.

 

[Rob42]

Might be back? Gone to the MLR right? Half expect him to be with some other nation in 7s soon enough.

Eastwood have the ever exciting tones of Anthony Griffin now as Director right? Has he had much Rugby experience? A lot of footy knowledge though and a lot of time in Q Cup prior to the NRL which could be good for Club Rugby.

SAN DIEGO LEGION APPOINTS JOHN MANENTI AS NEW HEAD COACH

sdlegion.com

 

[Pfitzy]

If I hear anything I will post it. BTW we have a Colts side playing in South Africa at the moment.

Beat Sharks Academy easily I see.

 

[Crashy]

Wow. Thats impressive.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

That's awesome. What an experience and recruitment tool.

Careful where that result gets posted. Nobody gets sassier than SA fans when a junior side goes down. Excuses are unreal and the chest beating over how good they perceive themselves yet I have seen plenty of Schools sides go over and win all their games. Even out U20s last year knocked em over.... crickets...

 

[LevitatingSocks]

Recently played at Easts and was quite impressed by the facilities and food.

I'm curious if the food and bev operation is self-sustaining, if it gets a little financial assistance from the rest of the club, or if it's revenue positive and pushes money back into the rest of the club.

Was leagues above the typical clubhouse fare.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

You get what you put into it.

It's become a bit of local destination from what I hear. Lots of Sports presentations, school end of term/year days and what not. Brings families in who aren't involved with Rugby. The local clubs are flying in popularity these days and would make sense they push "The Field".

 

[wamberal99]

You get what you put into it.

Lots of momey?

 

[LevitatingSocks]

You get what you put into it.

It's become a bit of local destination from what I hear. Lots of Sports presentations, school end of term/year days and what not. Brings families in who aren't involved with Rugby. The local clubs are flying in popularity these days and would make sense they push "The Field".

Yeah there was a massive crowd there to watch the AFL on tv and simultaneously a kid's birthday party on outside.

Was encouraging to see amidst all the doom and gloom about rugby. Love that they've developed a revenue source that doesn't involve preying on the local gambling addicts.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Lots of momey?

Seems so.

Can not like what it does to a Rugby side and being a proud Woodies fan Wamberal I'm sure Easts stung a bit lifting the shield with a lot of your former players and coaches but it is the game. I'm someone who is glad to see others play the game and not just Uni like it was for the best part of a decade.

I bet other Clubs wish they'd held or had the opportunity to have a facility like Easts Club.

Sure putting themselves in a good position for any future developments across club land nationally.....

 

[wamberal99]

Seems so.

Can not like what it does to a Rugby side and being a proud Woodies fan Wamberal I'm sure Easts stung a bit lifting the shield with a lot of your former players and coaches but it is the game. I'm someone who is glad to see others play the game and not just Uni like it was for the best part of a decade.

I bet other Clubs wish they'd held or had the opportunity to have a facility like Easts Club.

Sure putting themselves in a good position for any future developments across club land nationally.....

Is this the future of the game? Fewer clubs?

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I truly hope not but some Clubs with the means would be silly to not try and future proof themselves regardless of what may happen.

I don't see a National Club comp being a genuine option. If we had a postage stamp country then sure but the costs would cripple it from day 1. Keep them all as is and have the Pro Clubs develop more games under their umbrella for players to push up.

 

[LevitatingSocks]

I truly hope not but some Clubs with the means would be silly to not try and future proof themselves regardless of what may happen.

I don't see a National Club comp being a genuine option. If we had a postage stamp country then sure but the costs would cripple it from day 1. Keep them all as is and have the Pro Clubs develop more games under their umbrella for players to push up.

You'd have to further professionalize the Shute Shield and Hospital Cup comps separately before any sort of national club comp would be a viable replacement for Super Rugby. Very few are well-equipped to fully take on the burden of S/C, rehab, nutrition, or development that the Super Rugby clubs provide for their contracted players in club land.

I despise pokies but they might become a necessary evil for revenue generation.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

A lot of these Clubs don't have physical club facilities now. They sold them off years ago so it makes it hard.

It's a pipe dream and generous to even say that. Delusions of Rugby in Australia resembling that of the English Soccer tiers... Even the best set up Clubs are a long way off a professional set up. Sydney Uni probably have the ability to do it if they wanted but why bother when others aren't at your level. Rats do a great job having a lot in house and have it about s good as you will at this level but it's not where a pro comp would need to be.

 

[Pfitzy]

Establishing a club house of any kind in Sydney is nearly impossible because a single-ownership model isn't in the public interest, and nothing is going to happen without Council approval.

I look at a club like St Ives, who have been on a downward trend for years and are now struggling to stay alive. They've got a great little clubhouse on the ground, and while parking is poor and the facilities could use a refresh, it is still a good facility. Give the surface some love and it could be great.

Is that where Gordon moves next? They always have the challenge of cricket at Chatswood Oval and might benefit from putting some money in there to save the facility, should St Ives become unviable.

 

[Pfitzy]

As I'm always banging on about we need to look at better alignment of Unions in Sydney, in order to help strengthen the game.

No club should really be holding more than 3 competitive Grades + a Colts team at any one time - I include Premier and Subbies in that statement. Grades 4+ should be almost a separate competition e.g. Old Boys play Friday nights.

Perhaps the answer is to look at feeder arrangements in order to invest players into their local pyramid, much like the NRL have.

Eels at the top of the pyramid out here, supported by their age grade programs (Harold Matthews, SG Ball, Jersey Flegg), and then local clubs are the bedrock of that.

Similarly, we could move to have Premier clubs sit atop their local pyramid with support going both ways between them and Subbies + Junior clubs under that.

It would be harder to implement because of the chimera that has grown organically, and the initial issue is there are going to be winners and losers based on geography.

However, something needs to change. I'd be more likely to take an interest in Premier Rugby if it wasn't in direct competition for players.

If we don't change, we will end up like Brisbane where Subbies is a Friday night comp playing 6th Grade Premier clubs.

 

[Pfitzy]

If we don't change, we will end up like Brisbane where Subbies is a Friday night comp playing 6th Grade Premier clubs.

I should elaborate: that won't be the end of the erosion either. We already see whole clubs under threat at SRU level, so naturally you're going to get more bleeding as the tiers/grades disappear.

Better to build a seawall around 3 Grades + Colts than watch the tide wash away your club inch by inch.

 

[teamsport]

As I'm always banging on about we need to look at better alignment of Unions in Sydney, in order to help strengthen the game.

No club should really be holding more than 3 competitive Grades + a Colts team at any one time - I include Premier and Subbies in that statement. Grades 4+ should be almost a separate competition e.g. Old Boys play Friday nights.

Perhaps the answer is to look at feeder arrangements in order to invest players into their local pyramid, much like the NRL have.

Eels at the top of the pyramid out here, supported by their age grade programs (Harold Matthews, SG Ball, Jersey Flegg), and then local clubs are the bedrock of that.

Similarly, we could move to have Premier clubs sit atop their local pyramid with support going both ways between them and Subbies + Junior clubs under that.

It would be harder to implement because of the chimera that has grown organically, and the initial issue is there are going to be winners and losers based on geography.

However, something needs to change. I'd be more likely to take an interest in Premier Rugby if it wasn't in direct competition for players.

If we don't change, we will end up like Brisbane where Subbies is a Friday night comp playing 6th Grade Premier clubs.

Going to have to put an end to the agenda here. This would be the fastest way to erode the Shute Shield clubs ability to attract players to Australian and Sydney club rugby. Lower grades increase revenue and provide funding for the top grade to compete and attract players.

Your solution would force the problem up the grades and within 2 - 3 years the Shute Shield clubs would potentially struggle to field a third grade. That is healthy for no one.

Having the Shute Shield clubs support rugby in the district by providing active rugby playing members keeps rugby in a healthier position not to the detriment which is what you are insinuating.

In relation to subbies having players drop from 4th grade or 3rd grade to subbies is just unrealistic the standard of the Subbies comp is appalling other than the top 3 or 4 clubs. The side that won 1st division subbies contained a number of players who made one finals appearance in about 4 seasons of 4th grade at Souths.

Believe it or not some of these lower grade players and ex higher grade players don't want to be put into an environment that barely trains and play on fields that get mowed once a week.

Yes subbies has a place in the game but players will choose to play in a club for all different reasons forcing them down to subbies is not the answer. Subbies a lot of the time is not competing with grade clubs for players due to the problems listed above. Subbies are competing for 3rd grade colts mainly at grade clubs as they realistically aren't good enough to play grade rugby.

Big clubs and environments that train appropriately for the standard the player wants is what makes these players play at grade clubs. As well as the ability to be in a big club with a lot of connections. The game would lose players if players were pushed towards the Renegades from Eastwood.

Perhaps Subbies could look at opening up it's payment scheme again to attract more players to the game from overseas etc to fill clubs and support the game in Australia.

 

[Pfitzy]

Some of your points are valid, and some don't ring true in the least.

My experience in speaking with clubs across the Subbies landscape is that Premier Clubs only get in contact when there is something they need. And sure, your own club should be your top priority, but this is about the game more broadly.

I acknowledge that Premier Clubs can't be everywhere in Sydney, and that geographically we're always going to lean to the east. So Subbies clubs are generally not waiting around for the SRU to deliver us to nirvana. There are varying levels of wariness through to hostility toward SRU clubs in this.

The concept of "pushing players" from one club to another wouldn't work if you introduced it right this minute. It would take time and consideration, some planning, and understanding of who benefits (spoiler alert: everyone). If, for example, I can offer Eastwood a landing pad for players who aren't going to be on the 4th Grade bench that week, even if they want to wear Woodies shorts and socks, why wouldn't they take it? This is how things used to be, after all.

I recently spoke with someone in a Premier Club, to pick their brain on a particular topic. They specifically mentioned working better with local clubs, schools etc, because the top level are slowly starting to realise we all share the same problem.

And the alignment piece has been discussed in nearly every single discussion I've had this year. We can't keep ring-fencing things, and slinging mud at each other, because that way lies damnation.