Shute Shield 2017

[qaz]

I think it is great to see.
Now hardened grade players that have served an apprentiship, earned a call up, rather than 20 year old rockstars who haven't played much premier rugby at all.

Smartest thing you've ever said on here.
Couldn't agree more - give me a hardened grade player who has consistently performed over a number of years rather than a schoolboy superstar who has only ever dominated when playing against other boys with a handful of grade games under their belt.

 

[wamberal]

I have been saying for years that it would do the young superstars a lot of good to go and play for struggling clubs and get belted a bit.


WTF is the point of playing for the Corporation and winning every game every week, in Colts etc etc? Get 'em down and dirty. They would learn a heap from that.

 

[qaz]

I have been saying for years that it would do the young superstars a lot of good to go and play for struggling clubs and get belted a bit.


WTF is the point of playing for the Corporation and winning every game every week, in Colts etc etc? Get 'em down and dirty. They would learn a heap from that.

I have also been saying and thinking that for years.. I'm going to use Nick Phipps as an example however its only because it is the easiest example to back up my thinking..
He plays a couple of years at Uni colts - never loses a game and wins a few premierships.. He moves up to Uni Grade where he plays a few seasons and wins majority of his games and some more silverware. Gets put into the Waratahs program and eventually plays Super Rugby.... For the last 4 years he hasnt played behind a pack of forwards that have gone backwards or been dominated at the breakdown. All of a sudden, the Crusaders are belting the Waratahs forwards and he is having to use completely new skills to get the ball out of a ruck and find his fly half.

As Wamberal mentioned, it would be much better for long term player development if they had to learn to win ugly, or to get belted around some games or simply learn to work through tough periods in a game - rather than put 40+ on a team 3 out of every 4 weeks.

NOTE: all of my Nicks Phipps playing stats and waratahs history is implied purely as an example.. but you get my drift

 

[eastman]

What's the difference between Nick Phipps and Reece Hodge?
Both played for dominant Sydney clubs and actually Phipps came from 'further off the pathway' than Hodge did.

 

[qaz]

as i said... only an example to demonstrate my thinking.. And all facts, playing history and representative history on Phipps was all made up as an example... wouldnt be far off the mark though.

As for the difference between Phipps and Hodge - i dont know. I dont know enough about either of their backgrounds.. But i do know Hodge had to overcome some serious injury and adversity - maybe his off field struggles and battles compensated for having it relatively "easy" on the field

 

[Dave Beat]

What's the difference between Nick Phipps and Reece Hodge?
Both played for dominant Sydney clubs and actually Phipps came from 'further off the pathway' than Hodge did.

Well Hodge played colts in 2013 and didnnt make Soup until 2016, he had a full season of grade rugby before getting a contract.

I cant be 100% sure on Phipps progress to the Tah's but a do recall Deans took a liking to him very early, or Phipps took a liking to Deans's daughter very early.

Another example I'm not sure whether Horwitz, or Kellaway played a ful season of grade before putting pen to paper with the Tahs. I also cant understand how a 20 year old Max Markson gut a start before some of the seasoned campainers in NSW.

 

[wamberal]

What's the difference between Nick Phipps and Reece Hodge?
Both played for dominant Sydney clubs and actually Phipps came from 'further off the pathway' than Hodge did.

The point that has been made is a general one. There might be exceptions. For example, Hugh Pyle, who came from subbies!!!



I will say it again, a bit differently. What is there to be learnt from being part of a dominant Colts team, winning every week? Not as much as there is from losing, being part of a struggling team, and still managing to stand out.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I have also been saying and thinking that for years.. I'm going to use Nick Phipps as an example however its only because it is the easiest example to back up my thinking..
He plays a couple of years at Uni colts - never loses a game and wins a few premierships.. He moves up to Uni Grade where he plays a few seasons and wins majority of his games and some more silverware. Gets put into the Waratahs program and eventually plays Super Rugby.. For the last 4 years he hasnt played behind a pack of forwards that have gone backwards or been dominated at the breakdown. All of a sudden, the Crusaders are belting the Waratahs forwards and he is having to use completely new skills to get the ball out of a ruck and find his fly half.

As Wamberal mentioned, it would be much better for long term player development if they had to learn to win ugly, or to get belted around some games or simply learn to work through tough periods in a game - rather than put 40+ on a team 3 out of every 4 weeks.

NOTE: all of my Nicks Phipps playing stats and waratahs history is implied purely as an example.. but you get my drift

Phipps was picked up by the Rebels first not the Tahs.
Have to think it will be difficult to walk this pathway with one less team.

 

[MACCA]

Well Hodge played colts in 2013 and didnnt make Soup until 2016, he had a full season of grade rugby before getting a contract.

I cant be 100% sure on Phipps progress to the Tah's but a do recall Deans took a liking to him very early, or Phipps took a liking to Deans's daughter very early.

Another example I'm not sure whether Horwitz, or Kellaway played a ful season of grade before putting pen to paper with the Tahs. I also cant understand how a 20 year old Max Markson gut a start before some of the seasoned campainers in NSW.

Have you been out to a long lunch again DB?
Horwitz & Kellaway were under contract with the Tahs however played club rugby - they had EPS contracts or such like.
Max Markson might be Mack Mason methinks.
Manly looking good.
Cheers!




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Dave Beat]

Working to hard Macca.
Yes thats what i meant EPS straight outa school.
I remember Marlins stitched them up in 2015 even with KB (Kurtley Beale) in the backline.
Young kids staight onto EPS i dont get.
Thats the guy Mason is another example, i reckon i could name 5 first 5s that would keep him in 2's

Yeah that Manly Burger burger you refered to tastes better than it looks , my son loved it - make sure you get one when you come to the that oval

 

[Eyes and Ears]

Well Hodge played colts in 2013 and didnnt make Soup until 2016, he had a full season of grade rugby before getting a contract.

I cant be 100% sure on Phipps progress to the Tah's but a do recall Deans took a liking to him very early, or Phipps took a liking to Deans's daughter very early.

Another example I'm not sure whether Horwitz, or Kellaway played a ful season of grade before putting pen to paper with the Tahs. I also cant understand how a 20 year old Max Markson gut a start before some of the seasoned campainers in NSW.

Didn't Hodge miss most of 2014 and then get signed by the Rebels half way through his first season of Grade in 2015 and before he had played NRC? He also barely lost a game in his last Colts year and his 2015 season with Manly.

I believe Phipps played 3 years of Colts, was part of the Sevens team and also played Grade before being signed by the Rebels

 

[Dave Beat]

Didn't Hodge miss most of 2014 and then get signed by the Rebels half way through his first season of Grade in 2015 and before he had played NRC? He also barely lost a game in his last Colts year and his 2015 season with Manly.

I believe Phipps played 3 years of Colts, was part of the Sevens team and also played Grade before being signed by the Rebels

He hurt his ankle in the 2013 GF - played nearly all his rugby up until then at 10 and was ahead of a few of the rockstars who went to through the Private School System.

Made a return and played the full 2015 season in grade, predominately at 12, but had a handful of games at 15.

Rumour has it;
The coach of the Rays NRC team his name slips my mind was the Gordon Coach, and really wanted Adam Hill the Eastwood 12 back at Gordon were he played his Junior Rugby so promised him the 12 for the Rays. Subsequently Reece was asked to play 15 but also received interest elsewhere. Only after a good NRC were Reeece ended up in the 15 was Reece signed by the Rebels and because of injuries he started the season - the rest payed out as most people know.

2015 was a year for the Rays that made no sence they had this quota thing going on which was not for the good of rugby - 2016 was different and they were in the finals race.

I dont know enough about Phipps early years so cant pass comment.
I know there were a few years Uni were so strong they had Super Players playing reserve grade in the finals.

 

[eastman]

I think we need to end this career comparison but it seems to me that Reece Hodge has been fast-tracked much quicker than Phipps ever was.
The only 'adversity' he's gone through was major injury that most players go thorugh in their career.
Phipps didn't make any rep teams as a junior (at least in Yr 12), played 3 years Colts, Grade, Sevens and then finally got interest from the Rebels. If you're going to criticise someone for not doing the 'hard yards'- you've picked the wrong bloke.
Seems like Hodge was the rockstar, picked on physical attributes because he definitiely was/is not a proper 10!

 

[eastman]

Bernard Foley and Phipps' career are basically identical interestingly.

 

[qaz]

I apologise for starting this.. And it was never having a go at Nick Phipps or any other player.. I just picked his name out as an example (which probably turned out to be a bad example) to the point i was trying to make..
I think Wamberal might have put it better than i did..

 

[Dave Beat]

I think we need to end this career comparison but it seems to me that Reece Hodge has been fast-tracked much quicker than Phipps ever was.
The only 'adversity' he's gone through was major injury that most players go thorugh in their career.
Phipps didn't make any rep teams as a junior (at least in Yr 12), played 3 years Colts, Grade, Sevens and then finally got interest from the Rebels. If you're going to criticise someone for not doing the 'hard yards'- you've picked the wrong bloke.
Seems like Hodge was the rockstar, picked on physical attributes because he definitiely was/is not a proper 10!

In my comments I was quite clear I said I dont know enough about Phipps early on.

I apologise for starting this.. And it was never having a go at Nick Phipps or any other player.. I just picked his name out as an example (which probably turned out to be a bad example) to the point i was trying to make..
I think Wamberal might have put it better than i did..

qaz ignoring the player - the points you made were spot on. At times Soup Rugby has blooded school kids who havent played enough rugby.

 

[the coach]

Kurtley Beale is another fast track example.
Straight from Joeys to the Tahs -- not sure he'd even played one game at Norths before playing Super rugby.
His defence was clearly not up to par and IMO his confidence was severely impacted by being thrown in at the deep end and floundering.
I would really like to see the ARU rule that school leavers had to play a full year in grade before being able to take the field in a Super rugby game.

 

[Dave Beat]

Kurtley Beale is another fast track example.
Straight from Joeys to the Tahs -- not sure he'd even played one game at Norths before playing Super rugby.
His defence was clearly not up to par and IMO his confidence was severely impacted by being thrown in at the deep end and floundering.
I would really like to see the ARU rule that school leavers had to play a full year in grade before being able to take the field in a Super rugby game.

Yep another good fair example.
He had to adapt, did it well, but was found out at the start.
But then there are others like Tim Horan & Jason Little who did cut it - but back then when they first came on the scene Soup wasn't around and they had to be selected by their state first, and their state didn't play every weekend so they were blooded in club rugby.

 

[wamberal]

K. Catchpole went straight from school to the Wallabies. But that was then, this is now.

 

[Quick Hands]

I think we need to end this career comparison but it seems to me that Reece Hodge has been fast-tracked much quicker than Phipps ever was.
The only 'adversity' he's gone through was major injury that most players go thorugh in their career.
Phipps didn't make any rep teams as a junior (at least in Yr 12), played 3 years Colts, Grade, Sevens and then finally got interest from the Rebels. If you're going to criticise someone for not doing the 'hard yards'- you've picked the wrong bloke.
Seems like Hodge was the rockstar, picked on physical attributes because he definitiely was/is not a proper 10!

Hodge went through the junior club system as the school he went to didn't play rugby (or much sport at all). He probably was just put into the 5/8 role because he was the best option for his junior club. Particularly in the older age groups, these junior club sides barely have enough players to run a squad of 22 so it wouldn't surprise me if he became a 5/8 in that side because that was where the coach wanted him and because there was no one better.

In comparison with six years of rugby in the GPS environment, I suspect that he saw his fair share of adversity in junior club rugby in relative terms.