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Shute Shield 2016

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MACCA

Ron Walden (29)
Macca I certainly don't disagree with that sentiment but we need to accept a few facts:

Those that aren't the anointed ones likely never will get to that level. The majority of Super Rugby talent played Aus schoolboys and Aus 20s. As a result professional teams will put time into these players.

Wider squad members will spend up to 18 hours a week with the team for minimal financial reward. Can many older players afford to be available for this? We've seen repeatedly that Shute Shield and Hospitals Cup rarely prepares players to the level they need to be, so the franchises need players who can put this time in to get there.

If you are an NRL prospect, what are you going to do? Take a second tier contract or first tier contract in the NRL and train full time, or play club rugby hoping to get a look in for the Waratahs 32 man squad along with the other 180 starting players every Saturday at 3pm.

Most of Australia's best players have been at a high level by 20. As I noted a few pages back, during our golden years many of these players who supposedly played club rugby to earn their stripes, in fact played very little on their way to higher honours. Most played a season before they played state and national level.

I agree that it would improve the character of many young players. But don't for a second think that this doesn't happen in NZ. As WOB noted a few pages back, the vast majority go direct from school to ITM academies. Players aren't getting picked up after toiling away for years in club rugby, at least that's not where they are recruiting from first.

Australian rugby is just following the recruitment footsteps of the majority of the more professionally progressed sports in the world. It's the price of professionalism.

Thanks TWOS.
what would you tell the kid that was ill or injured in years 11 & 12 then went on to win Colts B & F awards? Give up because you haven't been anointed?
As you say, in NZ the best prospects go to ITM academies, ie they don't go to Super Rugby academies like here.
I think aspiring players that get a sniff of higher honours will find a way of making the commitment to keep playing - and they will be better people for it.
If Australian Rugby is following the example of that game they play in the North of England & a few South Pacific Countries, god help it. In the bush RL once dominated, now it is disappearing. Rugby has prospered in parallel.
My points-
don't make rugby too elite
don't foster a system that excludes late bloomers
dont let the young stars think they are too special until they have played aginst men
the SS, NRC & Super Rugby & International games in Australia are interdependent - the ARU should support each level

Long live the Shute Shield
 

2bluesfan

Nev Cottrell (35)
dont let the young stars think they are too special until they have played aginst men
I fundamentally disagree with this. I say "don't let the young stars think they are special at all".

They may be better AT A PARTICULAR STAGE than some other players for a particular coach's requirements, but ultimately they are just people playing a game, and we should not value them more than the bloke who is sitting on the bench for fourth grade. They are the fortunate ones and with good fortune comes responsibility. Unfortunately too many of the young stars have tuned out before they hear the second part of that sentence. Thankfully a fair percentage of the fortunate ones recognise their good fortune, and some even recognise how fleeting good fortune can be.
 

MACCA

Ron Walden (29)
I fundamentally disagree with this. I say "don't let the young stars think they are special at all".

They may be better AT A PARTICULAR STAGE than some other players for a particular coach's requirements, but ultimately they are just people playing a game, and we should not value them more than the bloke who is sitting on the bench for fourth grade. They are the fortunate ones and with good fortune comes responsibility. Unfortunately too many of the young stars have tuned out before they hear the second part of that sentence. Thankfully a fair percentage of the fortunate ones recognise their good fortune, and some even recognise how fleeting good fortune can be.
Exactly- bravo!


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T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Can you guys actually read what you are writing? You are stuck in the 80s. Actually scratch that, coaches of all codes were pissing in player's pockets in the 80s too. Maybe the 20s.

Any modern employer empowers their employees, makes them feel special, makes them feel like they can go far.

You are fighting completely against this. People want to feel special, and want to be rewarded. Especially people are are aspiring to make a career out of this. How would you fellas feel if your employer treated you that same way you are advocating that players can be treated? How would you feel if you're the best at your job in your company and your boss teated you the same as some battler who barely performs his role.

As an aside I am watching call of the wallaby episode 1 because I've run out of lethal weapon and Beverly Hills cop films to watch pre game (long story) and it's currently on the segment of the local rats vs Marlins derby (few familiar faces there). They're speculating why the passion doesn't grow at the levels above.

Now Dave notes there's about 6-7000 there (good crowd btw). But I have to ask, how many of those are not families of players or past players? It certainly appears to be the overwhelming majority. As a result of that perhaps it's easier to have that passion when you yourself have worn that jersey.

When it comes to the Waratahs and wallabies, I wonder if this passion is not replicated, because there's less former players, family members, etc due to the exclusivity and as a result, less passion.

Thoughts?
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Sorry Macca, I'm not talking about taking a lead from the NRL (though the code is undoubtedly more professional so it's not insane to think that).

When I say "if you're and NRL prospect", I mean if you're a rugby union player who would suit NRL.

As for your example about a player who was injured, how often does this happen? Hooper missed year 12 rugby and schoolboys and still was contracted. He was already seen before.

The system does not exclude late bloomers. None does. It's harder because scouts missed the opportunity to see you play with and against other prospects in the arena they primarily target. But amateur rugby will always exist, and at any level people will shine. AFL scouts went to see Liam Jurrah playing country footy when he left gaol for Christs sake. But the point is no system picks up everybody. If we ignored promising U20 players and only looked at players with years of grade experience we'd likely loose huge quantities of players to European rugby and NRL because they'd become full time professionals earlier.

I'm not saying that any alternative is preferential. I'm just saying don't act like rugby disappears off the face of the earth. How many players playing only in Shute shield for a number of years, having never been in the rep systems along the way and not training full time with a super rugby franchise, have then stepped up to the next level and shown they belonged in their first season?

I'd say Neville and Reid would be rare examples of this. They have had ups and downs but showed to be immediately capable.
 

Jagman

Trevor Allan (34)
BTW just saw a tweet from ARU that Shute shield is available to stream on 7Plus app. I assume that means it can be watched in Qld and around Aus plus anyone who knows how to get around geo-blocks could watch it from overseas.


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Caputo

Ted Thorn (20)
Neville was a talented Rower and was assessed by a HPU and offered Rugby later taken into Brumby Academy and played SS at the same time.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
I tried to watch it last year from QLD and had issues actually. Marlins had a game and Dave's promoting had given me some interest.
 

Caputo

Ted Thorn (20)
Grass Roots Rugby in NSW & QLD isn't big enough to continually support our 5 super franchises - I.e. 1/3rd of the Force Squad is made up of non Australians.

Did you mean these non Australian born players Pek Cowan, Tetera Faulkner, Chris Alcock, Guy Millar, Haylett-Petty brothers, Kyle Godwin, Brad Lacey and Ryan Louewns.
Ammon Matuauto who has been playing in the local comp since 2008
Tom Sexton born in Melbourne and represented Ireland at under ages.

Not sure what you meant by this I make it 22 out of 39 including Future Force including
3 Marquees including Steve Mafi born in Sydney.
7 who do not meet the 3 year residency rule. 4 are in their third year and would be eligible for Wallabies in 2017. Heiburg Van Wyk Stander and Brache, whilst Nikoro is in 2nd year.
The other two require Residency is a 19 year old in his second year in Australia and is part of the Future Force no different to Taniela Tupou in Brisbane and Semisi Masaweri in his first year in Australia from the ITM similar to Henry Speight.
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
Did you mean these non Australian born players Pek Cowan, Tetera Faulkner, Chris Alcock, Guy Millar, Haylett-Petty brothers, Kyle Godwin, Brad Lacey and Ryan Louewns.
Ammon Matuauto who has been playing in the local comp since 2008
Tom Sexton born in Melbourne and represented Ireland at under ages.

Not sure what you meant by this I make it 22 out of 39 including Future Force including
3 Marquees including Steve Mafi born in Sydney.
7 who do not meet the 3 year residency rule. 4 are in their third year and would be eligible for Wallabies in 2017. Heiburg Van Wyk Stander and Brache, whilst Nikoro is in 2nd year.
The other two require Residency is a 19 year old in his second year in Australia and is part of the Future Force no different to Taniela Tupou in Brisbane and Semisi Masaweri in his first year in Australia from the ITM similar to Henry Speight.

Well i dont know the history of the players and was trying to work some of them out, thank you.
I thought i counted 11, some of those 11, and some others i wasnt sure of so approx 1/3rd.
 

boyo

Mark Ella (57)
BTW just saw a tweet from ARU that Shute shield is available to stream on 7Plus app. I assume that means it can be watched in Qld and around Aus plus anyone who knows how to get around geo-blocks could watch it from overseas.


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But is it available on catch-up?

If not, why?
 

p.Tah

John Thornett (49)
It's behind a pay wall. Care to give us the highlights.
Essentially the ARU should fund the clubs directly. The AFL funds all parts of it's game directly. The Swans don'tfund NSW AFL teams.
If clubs have 'pissed the money against the wall' it's the ARU's fault for not having KPIs in place, but Randwick has a strong business model and never waisted money.
Club rugby is essential because it has strong ties to juniors and school rugby and it'son free to air TV.
 

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
Essentially the ARU should fund the clubs directly. The AFL funds all parts of it's game directly. The Swans don'tfund NSW AFL teams.
If clubs have 'pissed the money against the wall' it's the ARU's fault for not having KPIs in place, but Randwick has a strong business model and never waisted money.
Club rugby is essential because it has strong ties to juniors and school rugby and it'son free to air TV.


Subsidized by NSWRU via paying the ABC to broadcast it and now to the tune of $300k from the ARU to ensure it stays on 7Two. Again, their links to juniors is tenuous at best. Having kids wear their kit for a handful of rep games really isn't development. Could be argued the more centralized JGC structure would be a far more effective model. And doesn't recruiting from schools negate the 'we develop them' argument.
 

John S

Chilla Wilson (44)
Any word on why I didn't see a Penrith score update at half time? Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough.
 
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