Shute Shield 2016

[WorkingClassRugger]

I'd suggest the gap between 2nd grade and 3rd grade in most clubs is significant. I know at Randwick the pathway seems to be from Colts 1,2 to 1st or 2nd grade. 3rd and 4th grade is generally made up of guys who will never be good enough to justify selection in 1st or 2nd grade and guys who may have played higher grades but are now content to run around with their mates. In fact 70% of 2015 colts at Randwick will move into grade this year -- most into 1st and 2nd grade.

By the way, the current solid financial situation at Randwick is due to an enormous amount of hard work by upwards of 60 volunteers and staff and has not always been the case and probaby won't be in the future. Why should the premier feeder competition to the NRC have to rely on volunteers?

I'd suggest Bill Pulver has delivered the quote which will haunt him for the rest of his life ie suggesting that the clubs would "piss it up against the wall" on player payments if the ARU provided them with funds. When the ARU was broke, the SS clubs kept going and provided players to the Super teams without any thanks from the ARU.

If the ARU is concerned about grants being used for player payments why don't they provide support in other ways ie player insurance costs, provide equipment and playing gear, ground hire costs, etc.

Regarding relying on volunteers. Because its an supposedly amateur club participating in a supposedly amateur competition. Perhaps Pulver's comments weren't helpful but still if Southern as memtioned in another post could turn a $100k profit without the need for grants them why cannot everyone else?

Again, the ARU are providing $300,000 a year to ensure its broadcast is secure. That to me looks like providing funds as a means of adding value for the clubs.

 

[qwerty51]

Southern Districts own their ground. That's a big factor. They take all gate takings and no ground hire fees.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Southern Districts own their ground. That's a big factor. They take all gate takings and no ground hire fees.

Okay, but surely hiring a ground from the council doesn't amount to $100,000 a year. They'd also have to pay for their own upkeep of their grounds.

 

[the coach]

Southern are in the wonderful position of having a licenced club at their ground. Easts are the only other SS team with their own licenced club -- all the others have gone broke or have been replaced by arrangements with RSLs etc. Not sure how much their licenced club contributed to the profit -- anyone know?

 

[Dave Beat]

31 pages and not a ball kicked yet -- wow, big year ahead!

I've been out for the day and have had to catch up on about 6-7 pages so I've given up trying to respond to various posts, but I offer the following points:

Bit of good reading hey coach, smoking hot in the GAGR room for the past 24 hours.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Not that wonderful coach. Most have gone broke after all!

 

[AussieDominance]

I think we need to understand you make the heartland of the code strong before you expand at present the heartland is struggling.

Why are we supporting Melbourne and Perth? We may as well have second sides in NSW and QLD to save relocating players the hassle.

Grow from the grassroots.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Because in order to have money to spend on grassroots you need strong income streams. tV is one of the biggest. More markets and more games = more $$$$.

 

[AussieDominance]

Could have had more games in Western Sydney and the Gold Coast could have also played games at different times if worried about time zones.

 

[MACCA]

Some casual observations...
the Shute Shield was at its peak before Super Rugby started.
The NRC was created to copy the ITM & Currie Cups as it was considered the SS was to big a gap from which to step up & play super rugby.
The SS feeds the NRC.
The NRC feeds the Super teams (as well as the elite schoolboy pathways)
All levels have great rugby supporters which are important to the game.
All are vital cogs (IMO) & we need to keep them engaged for the good of the game.
The ARU should find a way of providing some kind of support to all these levels as they all are interdependent. I like The Coaches idea of providing resources & not necessarily just cash.

as a side issue, I also agree with all the posts that suggest these anointed Juniors would do well to play some SS to learn how men play. Was shocked to see a third grade Randwick side flog the NSW Under 20 team. I bet the mollycoddling of juniors wouldnt happen in NZ

the SS is valuable if nothing else than to get these kids to get experience playing with men.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Macca I certainly don't disagree with that sentiment but we need to accept a few facts:

Those that aren't the anointed ones likely never will get to that level. The majority of Super Rugby talent played Aus schoolboys and Aus 20s. As a result professional teams will put time into these players.

Wider squad members will spend up to 18 hours a week with the team for minimal financial reward. Can many older players afford to be available for this? We've seen repeatedly that Shute Shield and Hospitals Cup rarely prepares players to the level they need to be, so the franchises need players who can put this time in to get there.

If you are an NRL prospect, what are you going to do? Take a second tier contract or first tier contract in the NRL and train full time, or play club rugby hoping to get a look in for the Waratahs 32 man squad along with the other 180 starting players every Saturday at 3pm.

Most of Australia's best players have been at a high level by 20. As I noted a few pages back, during our golden years many of these players who supposedly played club rugby to earn their stripes, in fact played very little on their way to higher honours. Most played a season before they played state and national level.

I agree that it would improve the character of many young players. But don't for a second think that this doesn't happen in NZ. As WOB noted a few pages back, the vast majority go direct from school to ITM academies. Players aren't getting picked up after toiling away for years in club rugby, at least that's not where they are recruiting from first.

Australian rugby is just following the recruitment footsteps of the majority of the more professionally progressed sports in the world. It's the price of professionalism.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Aussie D, you lost me at Gold Coast. And this is coming from a bloke who lived their most of his life!

 

[Slim 293]

Could have had more games in Western Sydney and the Gold Coast could have also played games at different times if worried about time zones.

There's already a sport that's entire spectrum is based on a Qld v NSW rivalry..........

Rugby is not that sport.

 

[2bluesfan]

Best wishes to all clubs for a successful 2016 Shute Shield. As an overseas based supporter these days, I rely on GAGR and club websites for news (and gossip!) so please keep the news coming guys!
2016 - Year of the West. Two Blues to sing and sing again!

 

[Dave Beat]

Most of Australia's best players have been at a high level by 20. As I noted a few pages back, during our golden years many of these players who supposedly played club rugby to earn their stripes, in fact played very little on their way to higher honours. Most played a season before they played state and national level.

I agree that it would improve the character of many young players. But don't for a second think that this doesn't happen in NZ. As WOB noted a few pages back, the vast majority go direct from school to ITM academies. Players aren't getting picked up after toiling away for years in club rugby, at least that's not where they are recruiting from first.

Australian rugby is just following the recruitment footsteps of the majority of the more professionally progressed sports in the world. It's the price of professionalism.

TWAS - I guess we wont see many like Phil Kearns then -

• 2nd grade at Randwick.
• If i recall wasn't first grade at school either.

I believe these sort of players still exist.

Can i ask how many Shute Shield Games do you watch each year, and watch closely enough to see how certain players compete at different levels, in different conditions?

Grass Roots Rugby in NSW & QLD isn't big enough to continually support our 5 super franchises - I.e. 1/3rd of the Force Squad is made up of non Australians.

ARU need to work on / with the Premier Clubs to grow grass roots.


Lets not use rugby as an example.
· Starting a business from scratch involves, money, time, risk.
· Getting carried by a business that is externally funded carries non of this.
Then to have the latter source materials etc from the heart of the business just starting out is not successful business practice.
Then to have the governing body of these business, who started a this new market - well I don't know how to best explain that one so I'm not going to...... Now relate this to the NRC.

 

[Dave Beat]

Best wishes to all clubs for a successful 2016 Shute Shield. As an overseas based supporter these days, I rely on GAGR and club websites for news (and gossip!) so please keep the news coming guys!
2016 - Year of the West. Two Blues to sing and sing again!

That'd be torture - reading and wanting to watch.

 

[Dave Beat]

Can i throw out a request to NSW Rugby / Rugby News and Clubs - whole heap of punters out here that would love to see team lists on sites (not just first grade).

These mediums help promote our games and grow support.

• Rugby news shows - http://www.rugbynews.net.au/teams/?grade=nmF4qFeWa2
• NSWRU shows - http://www.nswrugby.com.au/ShuteShield/Teamlists.aspx

 

[AussieDominance]

Aussie D, you lost me at Gold Coast. And this is coming from a bloke who lived their most of his life!

I think I was referring more to the fact that to be perfectly honest if Australia wanted to put a better side out on the field they would have more players produced from those and surrounding areas than Melbourne & Perth combined. Obviously there are other issues such as growth of the game etc to contend with.

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

Best wishes to all clubs for a successful 2016 Shute Shield. As an overseas based supporter these days, I rely on GAGR and club websites for news (and gossip!) so please keep the news coming guys!
2016 - Year of the West. Two Blues to sing and sing again!

With the Pirates down in Camden this week I would normally be at Merrylands to keep you up to date with the match but sadly I will be in the eastern suburbs this morning and will therefore be visiting the John Barry vineyard
Good luck to all for the season ahead and up the Pirates!

 

[Train Without a Station]

Dave, again, my point is all examples are from the past. Phil Kearns was almost 30 years ago now.

Who's been since like that?

By like that I mean running around at 20 in 2nd grade out of colts but capable of progressing to 1st choice wallaby for a decade within 2 years?

Of course not every single player of quality becomes apparent by the age of 17. It's not an individualised system though. It's based on the best returns.
The majority are identified that way so that's going to be where the primary system will follow.