W
Wilsonmate
Guest
Tell us what you really think "Wilsonmate" -- don't leave us trying to read between the lines
PS: I agree with most of what you said but no need to get personal.
Im over it coach, we all have breaking points
Shute Shield 2016
- Thread starter Done that
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Im over it coach, we all have breaking points
Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
Good having you here, and agree with allot of points, we don't want a red card being issued though
the coach
Bob Davidson (42)
The great thing about Gaggerland is we get a wide diversity of opinions on every subject and even though I know I'm always right
and every else is wrong I'm happy to hear what they think. In a perfect world the Wicks would win every year, but then there'd be no point in going to games How do you think the Woods will go this year with Manenti taking a back seat role?
Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
Im waiting as well, im guessing Rugby News maybe waiting on all clubs all grades
W
Wilsonmate
Guest
The great thing about Gaggerland is we get a wide diversity of opinions on every subject and even though I know I'm always right
How do you think the Woods will go this year with Manenti taking a back seat role?
Woods are going in obviously a little fresh faced, lacking a touch of experience so it will be an interesting start. Luani and Kovacic in 2nd grade is an interesting move to start the year. We'll be aiming all teams in finals and club championship. Interesting to see how things change under stu, growing pains possibly but with Maneti still somewhat pulling the strings im looking forward to what the change in coaching staff will bring.
Im just stoked its back! Best of luck to all
Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
Cheers, got that one, last year we could get all grades under the team lists.
W
Wilsonmate
Guest
Not sure what's doing this year, haven't got any lower grades anywhere
Done that
Ron Walden (29)
Eastwood have theirs listed.
the coach
Bob Davidson (42)
Wicks too
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Folks, lets not start calling each other names.
Play the ball not the man. It's part of the rules.
Attack the arguments by all means but don't attack the poster.
Play the ball not the man. It's part of the rules.
Attack the arguments by all means but don't attack the poster.
GunnerDownUnder
Jim Clark (26)
Think most clubs have their lists up by now but can't find a compiled list
Dare I say it's normally HJ that does something as helpful as this for us plebs!
Dare I say it's normally HJ that does something as helpful as this for us plebs!
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
My usual source of team lists (the NSWRU Web page) still has last seasons lists up (and last seasons previews as well). Not sure if it is the Clubs not passing their lists to the centre on time or the centre not being "in the zone"yet, or a bit of both.
Round 1 Tips are always a bit tricky. Trial form often counts for little as coaches tinker with their combinations to see what works and what doesn't without necessarily showing their full hand.
Beasts v Rats. Some good looking off season recruits from the Rats. Rats by 15+.
Gordon v Penrith. New Coach at the Emus but not enough time to make the changes so it will be closer than 2015 but the Highlanders will get the chocolates by <20.
Shoremen v Pirates. Pirates to catch the Shoremen napping and come from behind for the victory in the first upset in a year of upsets. Pirates by 5-10.
M2B v Randi-Wix. This is the year of the West. Draw 20 all.
Hobbits v Manly. Probably game of the round. Hobbits are always tough in The Shire and they will probably prove me wrong, but I just like the look of the MMM. MMM to win by <7 with a last minute score.
Woodies v The Corporation. Without Captain Perrett and with a new HC, the Woodies could be vulnerable especially with The Corporation opening up their new Oval. I think that the Woodies will be too good and despite giving a damn fine account for themselves, The Corporation will be like the name of their oval and come in at #2 in a close match. Woodies by 5-12.
Round 1 Tips are always a bit tricky. Trial form often counts for little as coaches tinker with their combinations to see what works and what doesn't without necessarily showing their full hand.
Beasts v Rats. Some good looking off season recruits from the Rats. Rats by 15+.
Gordon v Penrith. New Coach at the Emus but not enough time to make the changes so it will be closer than 2015 but the Highlanders will get the chocolates by <20.
Shoremen v Pirates. Pirates to catch the Shoremen napping and come from behind for the victory in the first upset in a year of upsets. Pirates by 5-10.
M2B v Randi-Wix. This is the year of the West. Draw 20 all.
Hobbits v Manly. Probably game of the round. Hobbits are always tough in The Shire and they will probably prove me wrong, but I just like the look of the MMM. MMM to win by <7 with a last minute score.
Woodies v The Corporation. Without Captain Perrett and with a new HC, the Woodies could be vulnerable especially with The Corporation opening up their new Oval. I think that the Woodies will be too good and despite giving a damn fine account for themselves, The Corporation will be like the name of their oval and come in at #2 in a close match. Woodies by 5-12.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Would love to.
Only Randwick and Sydney Uni have their full 2015 reports available.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Nope. Never said that. In fact have given credit to the junior system. The junior village clubs are where players come from, just not senior semi-elite teams, where funnily enough the vast majority of the budget goes (just going back to previous comments of mine about financial matters).
How about instead of resorting to personal insults because I dare not share your view, mount a coherent argument as to the development that the Shute Shield provides that cannot be replicated, and why it could not be replicated.
Your response to my comment that the Shute Shield does not adequately prepare players outside full time professional structures is just petulant and immature and does not address the mounting number of experienced campaigners who join Super Rugby teams in their mid 20s or later with a wealth of premier grade experience and absolutely struggle with the step up. Just off the top of my head the following players have been shown to be nowhere near where they needed to be:
Dave Harvey
Dallan Murhpy
Hugh Perrett
Tim Davidson
Andrew Shaw
Angus Roberts
Alex Rokoboro
Luke Holmes
Ryan Hodgson
Brock James
Jono Jenkins
These are all players that spent a significant amount of time playing in Premier Competitions, many were very good players at that level, but were unable to then step up to the next level despite this extensive experience.
Why not instead of just resorting to petty name calling with little real substance, you provide evidence or reasoning to support why the Shute Shield itself is such a vital and irreplaceable resource in it's current structure and how what it does is because of the good work by clubs, not by the fact that the structure protects them and ensures that decent players gravitate to them by virtue of that?
To quote the GAGR Rules, "Only a complete knob jockey resorts to personal insults anyway."
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
Hypothetically,how could it possibly be good for the game to dismember the SS and basically replicate it?
which is your solution,as there has been no discussion about changing formats in any way.
Some people talk about SS paying SOME players with disdain,but completely ignore the fact that many Subbies clubs pay players despite there being rules against it.
why don't you share the same views with Super franchises?
Melbourne failed,why didn't ARU just put a new franchise out to tender & have a 2nd team in Sydney or whatever.
Or does visibility and ties to the community have more value add in Melbourne than it does in Sydney?
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
How many subbies clubs are saying they should receive ARU funding ILTW?
The disdain is that the SS Clubs create a situation where they themselves inflate the going rate for players (by competing) and then ask for the ARU to assist in funding their programs.
Super franchises bring in revenue for the game. Does a 2nd Sydney team increase TV markets (which increases value), help appeal to new players (specifically juniors). Also you have to consider would a second Sydney team dilute the Waratahs support? Considering the state has been bailed out by the ARU twice and barely broke a profit after winning the title, surely this would just create 2 franchises needing the ARU to prop them up.
I'm not saying dismembering the Shute Shield is good for the game. I'm asking, if all the supporters want to say how integral it is, provide some reasoning behind this, and how if it was dismembered, it could not be replicated, and the disadvantage would be more than the time lag where new teams need to get up to speed with the level.
Right now part of the benefits that the Shute Shield and their teams provide is due to the fact they are protected as Shute Shield Clubs. Colleagues couldn't just instantly replace Easts. But a huge factor is the fact that all of the talent has gravitated to Easts by virtue of their place in the Shute Shield. Colleagues have no incentive to become a Shute Shield level enterprise because there is no mechanism for them to progress.
Now if the SS was disbanded the strongest clubs would form the Kentwell Cup and by default that would be the premier grade. If there were non SS Clubs there would be a lag while they get up to speed. What I want to be told is why if this was to occur, the game world be worse off, other than the lag of a couple of years while clubs get up to speed.
Basically what are (and can) the clubs doing better going forward, not retell us about the past and say that's why it's so important.
I'm not saying that's the way forward, I'm just saying justify it more than what amounts closely to "all the best players pass through here because the status quo provides no alternative for them to". The system funnels players to the SS clubs as it is.
I'll be the first to admit that players like Jordy Reid and Caydern Neville would not be playing Super Rugby if not for the Shute Shield but how many clubs beyond Uni and Manly are preparing numbers players for that step up?
We can talk about junior development but that would still occur. Almost every sub-union in Australia has junior representative teams without a premier grade team in that state's competition. The Gold Coast had one before the Gold Coast Breakers and continues to have one now that team has become part of Bond University. Despite the lack of alliance with the Hospitals Cup team, players like Jarred Butler still have progressed through the system.
Don't tell me what happens, the same as it happens every. Tell me what's unique and cannot be replaced, or will drop in quality permanently without the current system.
The disdain is that the SS Clubs create a situation where they themselves inflate the going rate for players (by competing) and then ask for the ARU to assist in funding their programs.
Super franchises bring in revenue for the game. Does a 2nd Sydney team increase TV markets (which increases value), help appeal to new players (specifically juniors). Also you have to consider would a second Sydney team dilute the Waratahs support? Considering the state has been bailed out by the ARU twice and barely broke a profit after winning the title, surely this would just create 2 franchises needing the ARU to prop them up.
I'm not saying dismembering the Shute Shield is good for the game. I'm asking, if all the supporters want to say how integral it is, provide some reasoning behind this, and how if it was dismembered, it could not be replicated, and the disadvantage would be more than the time lag where new teams need to get up to speed with the level.
Right now part of the benefits that the Shute Shield and their teams provide is due to the fact they are protected as Shute Shield Clubs. Colleagues couldn't just instantly replace Easts. But a huge factor is the fact that all of the talent has gravitated to Easts by virtue of their place in the Shute Shield. Colleagues have no incentive to become a Shute Shield level enterprise because there is no mechanism for them to progress.
Now if the SS was disbanded the strongest clubs would form the Kentwell Cup and by default that would be the premier grade. If there were non SS Clubs there would be a lag while they get up to speed. What I want to be told is why if this was to occur, the game world be worse off, other than the lag of a couple of years while clubs get up to speed.
Basically what are (and can) the clubs doing better going forward, not retell us about the past and say that's why it's so important.
I'm not saying that's the way forward, I'm just saying justify it more than what amounts closely to "all the best players pass through here because the status quo provides no alternative for them to". The system funnels players to the SS clubs as it is.
I'll be the first to admit that players like Jordy Reid and Caydern Neville would not be playing Super Rugby if not for the Shute Shield but how many clubs beyond Uni and Manly are preparing numbers players for that step up?
We can talk about junior development but that would still occur. Almost every sub-union in Australia has junior representative teams without a premier grade team in that state's competition. The Gold Coast had one before the Gold Coast Breakers and continues to have one now that team has become part of Bond University. Despite the lack of alliance with the Hospitals Cup team, players like Jarred Butler still have progressed through the system.
Don't tell me what happens, the same as it happens every. Tell me what's unique and cannot be replaced, or will drop in quality permanently without the current system.
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