Shute Shield 2015

[Gibbo]

7-Two has the races on and 7-Mate has the Swans v GWS this arvo

 

[Inside Shoulder]

In neither of which am I remotely interested.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Round 5 Results

Shute Shield - First Grade
Eastern Suburbs 10 Northern Suburbs 31
Eastwood 41 Parramatta 3
Manly 22 Gordon 13
Penrith 15 Randwick 31
Southern Districts 24 Sydney University 40
Warringah 31 West Harbour 26 (Televised game on 7Two) [Sunday game - 2 pm kickoff]

Colin Caird Shield - Second Grade
Eastern Suburbs 25 Northern Suburbs 17
Eastwood 24 Parramatta 9
Manly 21 Gordon 7
Penrith 7 Randwick 130
Southern Districts 7 Sydney University 22
Warringah 23 West Harbour 16

Henderson Shield - Third Grade
Eastern Suburbs 14 Northern Suburbs 10
Eastwood 40 Parramatta 12
Manly 28 Gordon 36
Penrith 0 Randwick 107
Southern Districts 18 Sydney University 27
Warringah 10 West Harbour 17

Henderson Cup - Fourth Grade
Eastern Suburbs 31 Northern Suburbs 8
Eastwood 52 Parramatta 5
Manly 45 Gordon 7
Penrith 12 Randwick 36
Southern Districts 9 Sydney University 34
Warringah 19 West Harbour 5

Round 5 Games - 25 April
Gordon v Warringah
Manly v Southern Districts
Northern Suburbs v Sydney University
Penrith v Eastwood
Randwick v Eastern Suburbs
West Harbour v Parramatta ( 26 April Sunday game - Televised game Live on 7Two at 3pm)

 

[Pass it to Dunning!]

Yeesh. Poor Penrith. I'm a strong supporter in maintaining their presence in the Shute Shield but those lower grade scorelines. Yikes.

 

[the coach]

Yeesh. Poor Penrith. I'm a strong supporter in maintaining their presence in the Shute Shield but those lower grade scorelines. Yikes.

The Emus difinitely lack depth but the 1sts gave the Wicks a big scare. Wicks led 19-3 at 1/2 time, but the Emus really lifted their game in the 2nd half and got to 19-15 down with about 15 minutes on the clock. The Wicks scored 2 late tries to secure the win, but there were some nervous coaches on the hill and supporters on the sideline for a while.

Great credit to the Emus coaching staff. Every year they build up a team and find some talent only to be raped and pillaged in the off season and have to start all over again.

The Wicks had a lot of changes from the last few weeks with only 3 of the backline playing in the same positions as last week and although Deegan's a good prospect he didn't control the play anything like we've seen from Horwitz this year.

 

[Quick Hands]

Yeesh. Poor Penrith. I'm a strong supporter in maintaining their presence in the Shute Shield but those lower grade scorelines. Yikes.

I'm a great advocate of spreading rugby to the west, but the current situation with Penrith isn't doing anyone any good. I don't know exactly what the answer is though.

I'd be interested in what those closer to the ground in western Sydney think:

Is the presence of Penrith in SS doing any good at the grass roots levels?

Would it be better for one club in the area i.e. Parramatta, to be strong rather than have two clubs in the bottom half of the table on a permanent basis?

What if anything can ARU/NSWRU do to advance the game in places like Penrith and Cambelltown?

I noticed that recently Hawkesbury Valley JRU changed its affiliation from Penrith to Parramatta - is this a sign of things to come? (no criticism intended of HV)

Would we be better off in the short term having Parramatta in SS covering western Sydney and have the Western Rams NRC team playing out of Penrith Park?

 

[I like to watch]

There is no one quick easy fix.
I do know that most current Emu players would not automatically go to Parra.

 

[Quick Hands]

^^I know, but 15 years ago Penrith had a semi-competitive 1st grade side, a semi-competitive 1st grade colts side and the lower grades in both used to concede 60-70. We don't seem to have gone anywhere in that time - if anything the lower grade scores are getting worse.

Perhaps they wouldn't automatically go to Parramatta. Many would stay at Penrith and play Kentwell Cup, which is probably the level that some of them are at. The ones who want to play at the higher level with find an SS club, Parramatta geographically would at least get some and possibly most. In theory it would give Parramatta more resources to draw upon.

It's not a great solution, but I only really see bad options here.

 

[the coach]

Saw all the Wicks team lists on their web site. Awesome work by the unpaid intern from Coogee Oval.
I suspect that they had Horwitz originally listed as the 10 for First Grade, and when he was on the Bird to NZ, they moved Deegan up to the ones, and forgot to backfill him on the 2's list.

Where is HQ Wicks now that the Brook Street bunker has been liquidated?
Coogee Bowlo or do they have some Office space up at Latham Park.

What is happening to the former Community space/Senior Citizens rooms at Coogee Oval? Will there be some sort of grandstand, clubrooms, upgraded Canteen or Rugby Admin space in the re-development?

The after match function is being held at the Bowling Club, but I believe they also have a presence at Latham -- I think this is the official address for the club these days.

I've been trying to find out what's happening with the building works at Coogee Oval, but no luck so far.

 

[BellyTwoBlues]

^^I know, but 15 years ago Penrith had a semi-competitive 1st grade side, a semi-competitive 1st grade colts side and the lower grades in both used to concede 60-70. We don't seem to have gone anywhere in that time - if anything the lower grade scores are getting worse.

Perhaps they wouldn't automatically go to Parramatta. Many would stay at Penrith and play Kentwell Cup, which is probably the level that some of them are at. The ones who want to play at the higher level with find an SS club, Parramatta geographically would at least get some and possibly most. In theory it would give Parramatta more resources to draw upon.

It's not a great solution, but I only really see bad options here.

I'm a great advocate of spreading rugby to the west, but the current situation with Penrith isn't doing anyone any good. I don't know exactly what the answer is though.

I'd be interested in what those closer to the ground in western Sydney think:

Is the presence of Penrith in SS doing any good at the grass roots levels?

Would it be better for one club in the area i.e. Parramatta, to be strong rather than have two clubs in the bottom half of the table on a permanent basis?

What if anything can ARU/NSWRU do to advance the game in places like Penrith and Cambelltown?

I noticed that recently Hawkesbury Valley JRU changed its affiliation from Penrith to Parramatta - is this a sign of things to come? (no criticism intended of HV)

Would we be better off in the short term having Parramatta in SS covering western Sydney and have the Western Rams NRC team playing out of Penrith Park?

My comments here could potentially start of war so I need to choose my words carefully.

Firstly - Hawkesbury Valley changed affiliation to Penrith 3 years ago. They now wish to return to the District that started them. That's not a criticism of anyone, just a reflection of what is happening.

I agree with other comments that the Riff players would not necessarily come to Parra if the Riff were removed from SS. But we also need to consider, would Parra take them too? Each year there's always half a dozen or so players who move between the 2 clubs. Think back to end of 09 when the Riff grabbed virtually 3/4 of our SS side. There's been a trickle back here and there, it's not an ugly thing, just the reality that some of the players in both clubs really don't want to travel too far for perceived better opportunities. It is what it is.

I also chuckle at the tunnel vision majority who think a merger would work. The fact is that those who live in the eastern suburbs or north shore think Parra and Penrith are close. Reality is, that Rat Park is geographically closer to Uni number 1 than Granville Park is to Nepean Rugby Park. And that's just stating the geographical distance between the 2 clubs. Philosophically (and I think Penrith would agree) the clubs are even further apart.

There is a very strong dislike of each other between the two playing groups. Evidenced by the Round 18 match last year. Management side, not so much, but it's there too. a thousand years ago when I was playing, the players dislike was of Eastwood and Randwick, but the modern player has their attentions drawn further west. Again, not a criticism of anyone, it is what it is.

It'd be fair to say that Warringah and Manly and/or Easts and Randwick get on better with each other than what Parra and Penrith do.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I have lived in the Penrith area on and off for 25 years, probably 30 now I think of it. The sad reality is that except for a few dedicated rugby heads, the public couldn't give a crap about rugby out here. Penrith has the 2 biggest junior rugby league clubs on the planet. St Clair and St Marys who have in excess of 800 players each. Throw in Brothers who I believe now share Nepean Rugby Park and Minchinbury Jets who are both larger than Newport and Hunters Hill rugby clubs it shows you the size of the foothold the mungoes have out here.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Thanks for the geography reminder @BellyTwoBlues.

For those advocating the merger/takeover of Emus by the Mighty 2 Blues, here are some more distances from Google Maps to consider:
Merrylands RSL Rugby Park to No 1 Oval Sydney Uni is 21.3 km
Manly Oval to Coogee Oval is 22.1 km
Merrylands RSL Rugby Park to Woollahra Oval is 30.0 km
Merrylands RSL Rugby Park to Forshaw Rugby Park is 30.6 km
Merrylands RSL Rugby Park to Coogee Oval is 32.0 km
TG Millner Sportsground to Forshaw Rugby Park is 32.3 km
Rat Park to No 1 Oval Sydney Uni is 32.7 km
Rat Park to Concord Oval is 34.6 km
Merrylands RSL Rugby Park to Manly Oval is 37.7 km
Merrylands RSL Rugby Park to Nepean Rugby Park is 37.9 km
Manly Oval to Forshaw Rugby Park is 38.2 km
Rat Park to Coogee Oval is 38.6 km
Nepean Rugby Park to TG Millner Sportsground is 48.1 km
Rat Park to Merrylands RSL Rugby Park is 48.9 km

Marlins and 2 Blues Merger anyone? It is closer than Emus and 2 Blues.

Hobbits and Woodies are 5 km closer than Emus and 2 Blues.

Merge the Hobbits and Marlins. It is only 300 metres longer.

Sydney's West does not begin at the ANZAC Bridge.

 

[Dave Beat]

Thanks for the geography reminder @BellyTwoBlues.

Sydney's West does not begin at the ANZAC Bridge.

Some us think West starts from the Spit.
You've saved me some log book entries there HJ.
Goes to also show supporting your team and the comp on the road isnt that hard.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Club Championship Watch:
A long way to go and there has been some minor jockeying in the table but the usual suspects have already consolidated their lead at the top of the table.
The Corporation are giving up a bit of a headstart with their First Grade losing two games, although they may claw some points back when the postponed games against Gordon in grade are played (160 points if all 4 grades win with a 4t BP).

There are a maximum of 215 points available to a club each week, based on all 7 club teams winning with a 4 try BP and the target to win is >3000 points which was achieved by 3 clubs last year. In 2014 the difference between 1st and 2nd was only 33 points, with 3rd only 52 points further back.

Randwick, 882 points
Eastwood, 843 points (down 1)
Manly, 777 points (up 1)
Northern Suburbs, 772 points (down 1)
Sydney University*, 680 points (up 1)
Southern Districts, 650 points (down 1)
Eastern Suburbs, 472 points
Warringah, 379 points
West Harbour, 319 points (up 1)
Gordon*, 310 points (down 1)
Parramatta, 130 points
Penrith, 22 points


How the Club Championship table is calculated.
The competition points from the individual competitions are multiplied by the following factors and then added together.
First Grade - 15
Second Grade - 8
Third Grade - 5
Fourth Grade - 4
Colts 1 - 6
Colts 2 - 3
Colts 3 - 2

The 33 point difference between Gold and Silver last year could have been made up from an extra 2 BP in Shute Shield and an extra BP in Colts 2, or an extra victory without a BP in 2nd Grade and an extra BP in Colts 3.

Notes:
* Points yet to be allocated from washed out games in Grade 1-4 for Sydney University vs Gordon. Games likely to be played over June Long Weekend.

 

[Quick Hands]

My comments here could potentially start of war so I need to choose my words carefully.

Firstly - Hawkesbury Valley changed affiliation to Penrith 3 years ago. They now wish to return to the District that started them. That's not a criticism of anyone, just a reflection of what is happening.

I agree with other comments that the Riff players would not necessarily come to Parra if the Riff were removed from SS. But we also need to consider, would Parra take them too? Each year there's always half a dozen or so players who move between the 2 clubs. Think back to end of 09 when the Riff grabbed virtually 3/4 of our SS side. There's been a trickle back here and there, it's not an ugly thing, just the reality that some of the players in both clubs really don't want to travel too far for perceived better opportunities. It is what it is.

I also chuckle at the tunnel vision majority who think a merger would work. The fact is that those who live in the eastern suburbs or north shore think Parra and Penrith are close. Reality is, that Rat Park is geographically closer to Uni number 1 than Granville Park is to Nepean Rugby Park. And that's just stating the geographical distance between the 2 clubs. Philosophically (and I think Penrith would agree) the clubs are even further apart.

There is a very strong dislike of each other between the two playing groups. Evidenced by the Round 18 match last year. Management side, not so much, but it's there too. a thousand years ago when I was playing, the players dislike was of Eastwood and Randwick, but the modern player has their attentions drawn further west. Again, not a criticism of anyone, it is what it is.

It'd be fair to say that Warringah and Manly and/or Easts and Randwick get on better with each other than what Parra and Penrith do.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I have lived in the Penrith area on and off for 25 years, probably 30 now I think of it. The sad reality is that except for a few dedicated rugby heads, the public couldn't give a crap about rugby out here. Penrith has the 2 biggest junior rugby league clubs on the planet. St Clair and St Marys who have in excess of 800 players each. Throw in Brothers who I believe now share Nepean Rugby Park and Minchinbury Jets who are both larger than Newport and Hunters Hill rugby clubs it shows you the size of the foothold the mungoes have out here.

I don't think a merger would work either, which is why I didn't suggest it and wouldn't suggest it.

To me, the current situation (Penrith getting flogged) is doing no-one any good. Unless something can be done, Penrith need to play in a competition in which they are competitive. The result of that would be that Parramatta would be the only club in western Sydney.

 

[Quick Hands]

Thanks for the geography reminder @BellyTwoBlues.

For those advocating the merger/takeover of Emus by the Mighty 2 Blues, here are some more distances from Google Maps to consider:
Merrylands RSL Rugby Park to No 1 Oval Sydney Uni is 21.3 km
Manly Oval to Coogee Oval is 22.1 km
Merrylands RSL Rugby Park to Woollahra Oval is 30.0 km
Merrylands RSL Rugby Park to Forshaw Rugby Park is 30.6 km
Merrylands RSL Rugby Park to Coogee Oval is 32.0 km
TG Millner Sportsground to Forshaw Rugby Park is 32.3 km
Rat Park to No 1 Oval Sydney Uni is 32.7 km
Rat Park to Concord Oval is 34.6 km
Merrylands RSL Rugby Park to Manly Oval is 37.7 km
Merrylands RSL Rugby Park to Nepean Rugby Park is 37.9 km
Manly Oval to Forshaw Rugby Park is 38.2 km
Rat Park to Coogee Oval is 38.6 km
Nepean Rugby Park to TG Millner Sportsground is 48.1 km
Rat Park to Merrylands RSL Rugby Park is 48.9 km

Marlins and 2 Blues Merger anyone? It is closer than Emus and 2 Blues.

Hobbits and Woodies are 5 km closer than Emus and 2 Blues.

Merge the Hobbits and Marlins. It is only 300 metres longer.

Sydney's West does not begin at the ANZAC Bridge.

Who's advocating a merger? I can't recall reading it anywhere on this thread, and I certainly didn't suggest it.

EDIT: From yesterday's round

Grade Randwick 304 - Penrith 34 (4 grades)

Colts Randwick 128 - Penrith 0 (2 grades as Penrith unable to field a 1st grade team)

How is this good for rugby?

 

[wamberal]

7-Two has the races on and 7-Mate has the Swans v GWS this arvo

Today. Just started.

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

Lee smith on bench for pirates

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Backs I can understand, but what is it with some forwards wearing little pigtails in their hair - almost like a sumo or samurai top knot?

Looking at you Luke Holmes. Ever heard of a hair cut?

 

[wamberal]

Backs I can understand, but what is it with some forwards wearing little pigtails in their hair - almost like a sumo or samurai top knot?

Looking at you Luke Holmes. Ever heard of a hair cut?

Great footballer, Luke. If Josh had his ticker, he would be a Wallaby great.

 

[Gibbo]

Hopefully the Australian Rugby Foundation can actually send some funds directly to Western Sydney.... Which seems to be its scope