Shute Shield 2015

[Hugh Jarse]

@I Like to Watch, The key point is in your last phrase. U18's in addition to the (3) sides they fielded this year, not replacing one of the 3 sides that they fielded this year.

 

[Whale berry]

I disagree Whale.
My understanding is if U18's colts is brought in,it would replace the opens division in the SJRU Sunday comp.
I can't see why Newport juniors wouldn't play at the Rats,Beecroft at Eastwood,Blue Mountains at the Riff etc etc.
A quick look at the table this year shows the Wicks Easts & Uni are the only clubs that don't automatically have a feeder club for this comp.
I am confident that each club could field a team in U 18's next year,in addition to the sides they fielded this year.

Fair call on the existing juniors filling the void but my other points are valid:
x number of fringe (over 18 colts) get moved on
in year 2 when the private school boys hit the scene, potentially another batch of players are squeezed out.

I agree with Hugh, the U18 should be in addition to the existing colts program.
Makes so much more sense start in 18's, progress to 19's and then up to 20's.
By having an 18's program coming through it should make it easier for al clubs to fill competitive 3 rd grade (19's) colts.

If it does go through as proposed watch the subbies colts scene explode.

Maybe that is the goal, make SS more elitist and any one not totally committed can go play subbies, fits with the push the drop the SS 4th grade over the years.

A real shame if that is the case because a lot of people (young and a little bit older) get a real buzz in playing for a top flight club, even if it is only at a lower level.

 

[Done that]

It is true that some clubs struggle with fielding 3 teams but IMO making 3rd colts U/18 will only make that harder.
Outside of the usual top clubs, 3rd colts is made up of guys who have left school looking for a run with their mates, late developers etc etc.
Make those guys inelligible they will go to Subbies colts (or give the game away) and then those clubs will have to find 20+ 18 year olds.
As mentioned before what happens in year 2 when U/18's have to step up for Colts 1 or 2 and you have the private school boys competing for the same spots.
Dumb proposal

It's not clear to me what proposal you are calling dumb.
I am not suggesting an under 18's team replace the existing 3rd grade colts team.Nor am I supporting the introduction of an U18 team in addition to the existing grades.
What I am saying is that introducing an under 18's team in addition to the existing 3 grades won't work,largely because there are not enough players available for 4 colts teams.
There are plenty of under 18 boys currently playing in the existing competitions.
Even with those under 18's available,there are not enough players available for a number of clubs to field their required no.of teams already.
The concern that players will be pushed towards subbies because there will be too many players for the existing teams if the 3rd grade comp. is abandoned is not valid,because there are plenty of vacancies in most clubs already,(even with the alleged influx from "private schools") which are difficult to fill.To field 3 teams each week a club needs in excess of 60 players ,because there are always a lot of injuries ,drop outs etc.
It should be remembered that in the 90's there was a 4th grade colts competition,which no longer exists largely due to the dwindling numbers of players available.
Also it should not be forgotten that an extra team produces extra costs for each club,most of which are already struggling financially,& is a major consideration for them.
So the reality from my point of view ,is ,that whilst ideally it would be nice to have 4 colts teams at each club , given the current level of interest from players & the available numbers,
the current 3 team structure is the most practical.

 

[Whale berry]

I am not advocating change, just pointing out the consequences of such a change.
Some posters are saying there are heaps of U/18 players available and others are saying there aren't enough players to fill 3 grades, so who knows

 

[turnovertwopasses]

Found this the other day from the end of 2012- slightly worrying? Hope performance has improved since this came out...

 

[Gibbo]

A lot has changed for several clubs since that was published. Best to go and read the 2013 and/or 2014 AGM minutes for each club - most (if not all) in the positive direction.

 

[FTS]

Is there any 2014 Annual reports that have been published by an clubs yet?

 

[Rugby Is My Life]

Have Manly named a replacement head coach to fill the gap with the departure of Phil Blake?

 

[I like to watch]

Yeah they have promoted from within.
Cummins is the head coach,Reggie's coach is his assistant.
I reckon they have big shoes to fill.

 

[Rugby Is My Life]

Thanks ILTW - Cummins deserves a crack. Will be interesting to see how the Marlins bounce back after again falling short at the business end of the season - more so in 2014 when it seemed for awhile, they could go undefeated all year.

Will it be a Bunnies like, third year lucky scenario following two grand final qualifier losses?

 

[I like to watch]

I don't think so.
Despite their depth,I think they might struggle next year.
I think Blake will prove to be a much bigger loss than they could have imagined.

 

[Stag XV]

Any other coaching appointments been announced in the last week or two? Gibbo, what is the setup for Gordon next year? I hear Neil Tunnah is moving over to Norths so what are the implications for the grade coaching team at the Highlanders?

 

[Gibbo]

@Stag - These things happen (Neil isn't the first coach to go the Norths from Gordon and vice versa). Neil has long term goals as a coach and he thought he might be able to take the next step at Norths. The rest of the s grade coaching structure is staying in place - With Geoff T, Tim Wallace and mark Philp continuing where they left off last year.
2nd Grade have been performing well and (in my opinion) 1st Grade were the most improved of any Shute Shield team last year.
Geoff, Wall and Philpy are all popular with the Players so its shaping up as a good 2015!

 

[Gibbo]

BTW - I think Cummins will do well for the exposure at the Rays level.

 

[Andrew B Cox]

Well, these coach changes are interesting. I can say from a West Harbour perspective that Joe's return is a good thing. I reckon he will provide a bit of 'Jake White' to the club, and hopefully break down the current culture of learned helplessness. Wests are actually lucky he returned after the poor way he was treated to make way for Matt Williams. as someone who has experienced the revolving door at Wests, I hope they can start to recruit more genuine local juniors and get off the treadmill that is the annual island migration.

 

[the coach]

Well, these coach changes are interesting. I can say from a West Harbour perspective that Joe's return is a good thing. I reckon he will provide a bit of 'Jake White' to the club, and hopefully break down the current culture of learned helplessness. Wests are actually lucky he returned after the poor way he was treated to make way for Matt Williams. as someone who has experienced the revolving door at Wests, I hope they can start to recruit more genuine local juniors and get off the treadmill that is the annual island migration.

Hopefully Joe can instill some defensive grunt into the team. For several years they've shown the ability to score amazing tries, but spoil it all by conceding soft tries by the truckload.

 

[Done that]

Well, these coach changes are interesting. I can say from a West Harbour perspective that Joe's return is a good thing. I reckon he will provide a bit of 'Jake White' to the club, and hopefully break down the current culture of learned helplessness. Wests are actually lucky he returned after the poor way he was treated to make way for Matt Williams. as someone who has experienced the revolving door at Wests, I hope they can start to recruit more genuine local juniors and get off the treadmill that is the annual island migration.

I agree that Joe Barakat's return is a positive step for the West Harbour club.
He did coach Wests for 5 years previously with some success,a significant time compared to most Shute Shield coaches, so I don't think that he could be seen as part of a "revolving door" process.

Coaches, like players,are,not surprisingly,judged on their performance/results.
And just like some players who don't succeed,some coaches will inevitably look for reasons outside of their own personal performance,for their lack of success.
To draw on your "learned helplessness" analogy,is it just possible that a coaches performance forms part of the aversive stimulus,rather than the reverse?

 

[Andrew B Cox]

Depends if the coach has had success elsewhere. However, I tend to lean towards the Vince Lombardi train of thought that says ' if an organisation lacks success, look at the front office first'. Unfortunately in Wests case, it's often the coach.

 

[Done that]

Further cut backs in ARU grants to the clubs for next year.

 

[Knuckles]

Further cut backs in ARU grants to the clubs for next year.

Correct. The cut backs will be down to zero!

About the same amount as the chance Pulver has at keeping his job!