Shute Shield 2015

[the coach]

Stop it.
You're reminding me of how far we've fallen.

The good news is the SS will survive as it is, and always has been, about guys wanting to play rugby on a Saturday afternoon. In spite of the efforts of the ARU club rugby will continue even if nobody other than the mums, dads, wife and girlfriends of the players (and their dogs) plus a few hundred loyal supporters get to watch the game.

 

[Pfitzy]

- Meanwhile back at the Shute Shield competition where the clubs have the opportunity to make money to invest in the NRC

Opportunity? Yes. Balls? No.

For a venture backed by the best SS club of the last decade, alongside the most cashed-up Subbies club in recent history, the Stars didn't look for a moment like everyone was on board.

 

[I like to watch]

Note to Mr Pulver -- the ARU now has NO live rugby on Australian free-to-air TV. I thought you said this was vital for the success of the code? Your frequently stated aim of getting S15 on free-to-air has now also fizzled into a replay of one game on channel 10 on Sunday morning from 2016 onwards. What a joke!

Let's see what he does,this one is not a Pulver fuckup,it's an Abbott thing.
To be fair to Pulver I thought he did a great job getting Foxtel to actually pay them to televise the NRC.
Who knows,maybe ch 10 will pick it up,and it will the best thing ever.

 

[the coach]

Shute Shield, subbies, S15, 7s, Wallabies, NRC.

Sounds like too many products not enough marketing budget to me.

 

[the coach]

Let's see what he does,this one is not a Pulver fuckup,it's an Abbott thing.
To be fair to Pulver I thought he did a great job getting Foxtel to actually pay them to televise the NRC.
Who knows,maybe ch 10 will pick it up,and it will the best thing ever.

As I've suggested before, I believe the only reason Foxtel paid for the NRC was to try to discourage Pulver from pursueing his stated aim of getting S15 live on free-to-air. Mission accomplished.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The good news is the SS will survive as it is, and always has been, about guys wanting to play rugby on a Saturday afternoon. In spite of the efforts of the ARU club rugby will continue even if nobody other than the mums, dads, wife and girlfriends of the players (and their dogs) plus a few hundred loyal supporters get to watch the game.

I hope the wife and the girlfriend don't meet! Reminds me of a story.......
I''ll be there when other rugby commitments permit.

 

[It is what it is]

Opportunity? Yes. Balls? No.

For a venture backed by the best SS club of the last decade, alongside the most cashed-up Subbies club in recent history, the Stars didn't look for a moment like everyone was on board.

Or you could use a different positive example Pfitzy.
"Traditional foes Randwick and Easts came off underachieving Shute Shield seasons to combine with the boys from the bush to play exciting and attractive rugby, make the NRC semi finals, and showcase a wealth of emerging pathway talent."
Depends if you want to dip your pen in shit or chocolate.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Forget about the ARU $28k grant to the clubs, the withdrawal of the ABC coverage from Shute Shield should have everyone reaching for pitchforks and torches.

One bloke sending one or more inappropriate texts can generate well over 100 pages of "outrage" (for and against) on this blog, yet the withdrawal of the only FTA rugby coverage (apart from the games mandated for FTA by the Govt) seems to draw a whimper.

Arc up. This is not good for the growth of the game at any level.

Isn't it the job of the various State and National peak rugby bodies around the place to get, and keep, the game on TV?

 

[Tah and feathered]

Forget about the ARU $28k grant to the clubs, the withdrawal of the ABC coverage from Shute Shield should have everyone reaching for pitchforks and torches.

One bloke sending one or more inappropriate texts can generate well over 100 pages of "outrage" (for and against) on this blog, yet the withdrawal of the only FTA rugby coverage (apart from the games mandated for FTA by the Govt) seems to draw a whimper.

Arc up. This is not good for the growth of the game at any level.

Isn't it the job of the various State and National peak rugby bodies around the place to get, and keep, the game on TV?

I think everyone is exhausted by everything that has happened in rugby over the past month. Hard to believe that 2 years ago there was SS on tv and programs at the grounds, now nothing.so much for moving forward.

 

[Dave Beat]

Forget about the ARU $28k grant to the clubs, the withdrawal of the ABC coverage from Shute Shield should have everyone reaching for pitchforks and torches.

One bloke sending one or more inappropriate texts can generate well over 100 pages of "outrage" (for and against) on this blog, yet the withdrawal of the only FTA rugby coverage (apart from the games mandated for FTA by the Govt) seems to draw a whimper.

Arc up. This is not good for the growth of the game at any level.

Isn't it the job of the various State and National peak rugby bodies around the place to get, and keep, the game on TV?

SS thread so I can be as one eyed as I want here, and any loiterers from other state want to pass comment - guess what.
A number of clubs have been posting profits for a few years now, and are definitely running a professional rugby team and business.
Waratahs are also looking at the rugby and not the show boat and all in all NSW Rugby is heading in the right direction – good example of this was the clubs looking to work together in the NRC. Yes there were altercations and disagreements but that is business and sport – reality it happens.
I’d like to think are enough corporate, and relationships to lift rugby in NSW up and do it alone without the ARU blazers.
Shute Shield be a full home and away, and do it well so people notice, it is marketed and captures corporate interest – NRC no more – whilst i was all for it, if the tide flows as it has rugby, its supporters and corporate $ (sponsorship) may weaken our game.

Maybe (idea only) the SS is refined a little, is 12 teams right – I don’t know, but all clubs are doing it for the love of the game.


Did anyone of that make sense - in short - without club rugby our game will struggle. What do they think, players will go from school straight to Super 15, to say there is the NRC wake up that is only 23 players x 9 teams, the SS provides more players than that in first grade alone, plus other grades.

 

[refugee]

With you Dave.
Players wanting to become professionals move to SS first and if good enough -get picked in professional ranks.

 

[RugbyReg]

With you Dave.
Players wanting to become professionals move to SS first and if good enough -get picked in professional ranks.

That's probably not entirely correct right? Would be interesting to go through the tahs GF team and see if that for how many that was the case for.

Not Izzy, Alofa, Beale, Palu?, Hooper?, JacPot, Skelton.

Off the top of my head. Probably not many who forced their way in through club form?

 

[Dave Beat]

That's probably not entirely correct right? Would be interesting to go through the tahs GF team and see if that for how many that was the case for.

Not Izzy, Alofa, Beale, Palu?, Hooper?, JacPot, Skelton.

Off the top of my head. Probably not many who forced their way in through club form?

Must remember Palu has been around for a number of years though - if i remember correctly he came through in an awesome (undefeated i think) Manly colts team, some rep time, then went to league and came back.
Hooper school, Manly Colts, Aus 20's, Brumbies, went straight from Manly Colts into Super.

And I thought Bread was picked from West Harbour.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Even Skelton did time @ Uni - I recall Bruce Ross lauding him long before he'd been seen @ Moore Park.
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was a lower level rep who played colts at Norths.
Cam Crawford the same.
Phipps spent time at Uni.
Betham has been around the traps - not sure he would have been paid for his stint in the NPC given what I read about the Kiwi structure.
McKibbin battled away for years in clubland, did he not?
The only bloke who really came straight out of school was Beale.
The other thing to bear in mind (and I know the Tahs are alive to this and so are Syd Uni): talent identification in school level is pretty hit and miss in terms of its translation into senior pro rep quality players.
This paper Barkell, J., O'Connor, D., Cotton, W. (2013). An examination of the progression from national schoolboy to senior representation in Australian rugby union. University of Sydney Papers in Human Movement, Health and Coach Education, 2, 1–16 examines the conversion rates.
Frankly I do not see how you could build a pro structure on those type of conversion rates without a solid weekly competition challenging the previously unidentified talent - i.e. Shute Shield (and premier Rugby and The Canberra comp).
Taking the perceived best U18 players and assuming they will eventually cut the mustard as pros is fraught with danger and uncertainty.

 

[the coach]

My worry is that the geniuses at NSWRU and ARU (all of whom are only temporary guardians of the game ie for as long as they remain in their current roles) don't believe that competitions like the SS are necessary for the survival of the game.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Even future superstar, Andrew Kellaway, has spent time playing First Grade with Randwick, when able to fit this in around Aust and NSW U20 Commitments, and they don't come much better credentialed than him from the Schoolboy Talent Identification Programmes that are being run around the place.

Building on the findings of Barkell, J. et al (2013), check out this cigarette packet analysis of the IRB Junior POTY from recent times:

It's interesting to look at past junior players of the year (other nominees in brackets):

2008: Luke Braid
2009: Aaron Cruden (Winston Stanley, Carl Fearns, Richard Kingi)
2010: Julian Savea (Tyler Bleyendaal, Robbie Coleman, Ignacio Rodriguez Muedra)
2011: George Ford (Luke Whitelock, Sam Cane)
2012: Jan Serfontein (JJ Hanrahan, Shaun Adendorff)
2013: Sam Davies (Ardie Savea, Jack Clifford)
2014: Handre Pollard (Nathan Earle, Tevita Li, Garry Ringrose)


Obviously some of them might still make it, but out of that list - including the other nominees - only a few have kicked on to have any kind of impact at international level, namely Cruden, Savea, Ford, Cane, Serfontein and Pollard.

 

[Antony]

If you go further back (to when there was a mish-mash of prizes) you get a similar strike-rate, maybe slightly better:

2007 U19 - Robbie Fruean (no)
2006 U19 - Josh Holmes (no)
2006 U21 - Lionel Beauxis (yes)
2005 U19 - Isaia Toeava (yes)
2005 U21 - TPN (yes)
2004 U19 - Jeremy Thrush (yes-ish)
2004 U21 - Jerome Kaino (yes)
2003 U19 - Jean Baptiste Peyras-Loustalet (no)
2003 U21 - Ben Atiga (no)
2002 U19 - Luke McAlister (yes)
2002 U21 - Pat Barnard (no)
2001 Young POTY - Gavin Henson (yes)

 

[the coach]

Hugh and Antony -- very interesting and good points made!

As I've said before, the overwhelming majority of guys running around on the weekend have no aspirations to play at a higher level. They just want to play rugby with their mates and have a few beers after the game. The ARU and NSWRU have a responsibility to those guys as well as the S15 and Wallaby players and the rock star schoolboys. If you want to run the game you have to be prepared to look after all levels, not just the sexy stuff. I've had enough of people like Pulver and Farr-Jones telling us (via the ABC SS broadcasts !!!) how important club rugby is but then totally ignoring it. These guys should join a political party they've obviously mastered the art of faking sincerity.

 

[Dave Beat]

That's probably not entirely correct right? Would be interesting to go through the tahs GF team and see if that for how many that was the case for.

Not Izzy, Alofa, Beale, Palu?, Hooper?, JacPot, Skelton.

Off the top of my head. Probably not many who forced their way in through club form?

Not a bad nursery the SS / Colts set up hey - cant find the team but i think the Manly colts team included a back row of George Smith / Wycliff Palu

 

[Eyes and Ears]

Not a bad nursery the SS / Colts set up hey - cant find the team but i think the Manly colts team included a back row of George Smith / Wycliff Palu

I don't think so. The Manly team was 1999. Right timing for George but Cliffy was only 16 at the start of 1999.