Shute Shield 2014

[Hugh Jarse]

University have the 2013 150th Year celebrations behind them.

The Juggernaught shows no sign of slowing up, unless the Pulveriser and others at ARU do something drastic.

Time to start looking forward to next season. Who will challenge Uni for Shute Shield Supremacy in 2014?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

unless the Pulveriser and others at ARU do something drastic.

Who will challenge Uni for Shute Shield Supremacy in 2014?

Something drastic like directing the franchises to tell their contracted players where they will play?
Geez what a thought

 

[Dave Beat]

University have the 2013 150th Year celebrations behind them.

The Juggernaught shows no sign of slowing up, unless the Pulveriser and others at ARU do something drastic.

Time to start looking forward to next season. Who will challenge Uni for Shute Shield Supremacy in 2014?

Who does Pulveriser junior play for?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Who does Pulveriser junior play for?

He isn't very good. He is only in 2nd grade colts for his club.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

He isn't very good. He is only in 2nd grade colts for his club.

How many "points" does he cost the students in 2's colts??
Dave Beat he only plays for uni when he's not playing Oz U20s
(I know you know this)

 

[Dave Beat]

How many "points" does he cost the students in 2's colts??
Dave Beat he only plays for uni when he's not playing Oz U20s
(I know you know this)

My point, thank you.

 

[howyagoin]

No one will challenge the Empire... We're all f***ed

 

[boyo]

Use the force, Luke.

 

[SackRobbie]

I am hearing that this new set up is a certainty for 2014 & the spots will go to tender with a criteria (mostly financial) required to be considered.

Lets assume this does go through & the Shute Shield comp finishes in July before the new comp starts.

1. What happens to the other Shute Shield Clubs that don't make the new comp during this time? Do they just sit on the sideline & watch?

2. Won't this just make the 4 teams in the new comp the super clubs as why would players join a 'non-new comp' team for the Shute Shield comp when they are obviously going to have more of a chance with one of the 4?

 

[It is what it is]

Even XBOX knows about them.
Note the colours and age group at 16+.

 

[Dave Beat]

1. What happens to the other Shute Shield Clubs that don't make the new comp during this time? Do they just sit on the sideline & watch?

2. Won't this just make the 4 teams in the new comp the super clubs as why would players join a 'non-new comp' team for the Shute Shield comp when they are obviously going to have more of a chance with one of the 4?

Could this work;
The Shute finishes in July, and the minor premiers get the Shields.
The new comp is played at club grounds so the Grass Roots keep involved.
The new comp includes colts @ 1:30 & grade at 3.00.
The Shute continues underneath this new comp all the way through to the finals in a similar format as we have now.

I.e. Lets say Eastwood are in the new comp, well there second grade team is elevated to play first grade against the other Shute Shield teams.

I think we are only seeing the surface of the idea's - what all the 2nd. 3rd. & 4th graders - there season finishes in July - really - I don't think so.

 

[SackRobbie]

What all the 2nd. 3rd. & 4th graders - there season finishes in July - really - I don't think so.

Yeh good point Dave. Why would a 3rd grader have any interest in playing from March to July and then doing bugger all for the rest. Surely if players are going to get better they need to play more matches - not less!

Many rugby players are still playing cricket until the start of April so that rules them out as well.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

2. Won't this just make the 4 teams in the new comp the super clubs as why would players join a 'non-new comp' team for the Shute Shield comp when they are obviously going to have more of a chance with one of the 4?

Yes

 

[I like to watch]

Could this work;
The Shute finishes in July, and the minor premiers get the Shields.
The new comp is played at club grounds so the Grass Roots keep involved.
The new comp includes colts @ 1:30 & grade at 3.00.
The Shute continues underneath this new comp all the way through to the finals in a similar format as we have now.

I.e. Lets say Eastwood are in the new comp, well there second grade team is elevated to play first grade against the other Shute Shield teams.

I think we are only seeing the surface of the idea's - what all the 2nd. 3rd. & 4th graders - there season finishes in July - really - I don't think so.

Dave, any scenario that involves 4 clubs playing both the SS and in the new tier 3 comp,will destroy the SS.
The strongest players in the 8 weaker clubs will all gravitate to the strongest 4, so they can play in the 3rd tier.
The SS would be untenable.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Surely if players are going to get better they need to play more matches - not less!

What they really need is more matches in which they are pressured so they become used to executing skills under game pressure and the way to do that is for them to play in a competition that is as even as possible and runs for as long as possible.

 

[howyagoin]

Well since Pulver got so hammered by several presidents last week on the meeting on future 3rd tier etc you can only guess it went like this:
He wants to run a Shute Shield with only Waratahs playing occasionally until July or so, then run an ARC style comp with a bunch of S15 players & selected Shute players. There'll be 2 "independent" clubs (Sydney Uni & Manly) & them the rest will amalgamate to become something they are not...

I guess Pulver wants lower grades to finish up in July? What a dickhead. Time for
Someone like Brett Papworth or one of the other influential presidents to get something independent running so we can just play footy & be done with Pulver's crap. He's threatened to cut $60k to each club to finance the Rebels who are probably haemorrhaging money.... If it wasn't for the Shute Shield the Rebels wouldn't exist cos they wouldn't be able to pick all those Sydney Uni players!

 

[howyagoin]

Get back to 22 rounds of Shute Shield, if the ABC only wants to televise 16 rounds cos of finances then put rounds 6-22 on tv & leave 1-5 without tv coverage? Setup "academy" program's at Shute Shield clubs & enhance these clubs knowledge etc by sharing all the information/players from academies amongst the clubs. Increased knowledge = increased standard of play?

 

[Dave Beat]

With the participants of this forum batting for rugby, their rugby club, and the codes future development and growth - have a read and add your thoughts and ideas;

​

SYDNEY RUGBY UNION​

17 September 2013​

Mr. Bill Pulver

Chief Executive Officer





Dear Bill



PROPOSALS AFFECTING SYDNEY PREMIER RUGBY



The purpose of this letter is to provide a formal response, on behalf of both the Sydney Rugby Union and the Presidents of the twelve Premier Clubs, to the discussion held on 11 September 2013. In this letter, “we” refers to both the SRU and the Clubs, because there is unanimity in the views here set out.



At the outset I should say that we accept that there are serious problems, not all financial but many of them of this kind, facing the ARU and Australian Rugby generally. I am equally sure that everyone in Australian Rugby wants to see these problems fixed. At the same time, I must make crystal clear (as I think was evident at the recent meeting) that we do not accept that the solutions lie in the strategies presently being proposed by ARU. At the heart of these views are two central propositions.



One is that, while we have openly acknowledged that there are a range of aspects of the Sydney Premier Rugby Competition which could be improved, we must emphasise as strongly as possible that it remains a strong and elite competition, which continues to provide about two-thirds of Wallaby players. The Competition is the well at which Australian Rugby drinks. That fact alone should suggest that, in a broad sense, the way forward is for the ARU to work cooperatively with the Clubs and the SRU to strengthen and improve the Competition (and to do likewise in connection with the Brisbane club competition).



The other is that the strategies proposed will, in our view, not merely fail to improve Australian Rugby or the Competition, but will instead actively damage it. Starved of the players who have been nurtured and developed by the Clubs, the Competition’s standard of Rugby will inevitably fall. The financial viability of Clubs, already threatened by diminishing contributions from ARU, will be placed at greater risk. Crowds come to see high quality Rugby, not mediocre Rugby. The profile given to the Competition by ABC TV coverage, already under threat (a threat quite probably already increased by these current events) would be irreparably damaged should that coverage cease. The result would be that the well would dry up, and Australian Rugby as a whole would suffer greatly.



The strategies presented at the meeting were bereft of evidence of feasibility and financial viability. The concept of establishing teams, in areas where Rugby is not a major sport, without community support, and devoid of the tribal loyalties which make great football clubs of any code, has been exposed, by the Australian Rugby Championships, as fatally flawed. Comparisons with the Currie Cup and the Ranfurly Shield are fallacious, because they do not match like with like. Rugby does not, in Australia, have the same profile as it does in South Africa or New Zealand. Proposing essentially the same model represents the triumph of hope over experience.



It is further disheartening for us to be presented with strategies so plainly demonstrating a want of basic understanding of Club Rugby. To take just a minor example, a proposal to start the season early, at a time when Clubs having ovals as their home grounds would be unable to use those grounds because of cricket commitments, makes us fear for the future of Australian Rugby if this represents the level of comprehension, within the ARU, of how Rugby works on the ground.



These things having been said, we do not oppose the concept of a national club competition as such, although we have doubts about the feasibility of such a competition. What is completely unacceptable, however, is that efforts of this kind should damage Sydney and Brisbane club competitions by withdrawing over 50 players from them, and in so doing spending an unspecified (but obviously very substantial) amount of money which could be much better spent supporting these competitions which are, in reality, already the academies.



In summary, nothing presented at the meeting appears to offer any realistic prospect of improvement – indeed quite the reverse.



We accept the existence of financial problems, but we do not accept the doomsday scenario of the disappearance of Australian Rugby within two years. No Australian government – certainly not the recently elected one – would suffer the collapse of the Wallabies, and Rugby as an international level sport. Thus we think the task is to devise a plan, in conjunction with government, business, and the Rugby community, to remediate the problems over time, and not to propose a revolution in the pious hope of reaping instant rewards.



To that end, we stand prepared – as was foreshadowed at the meeting – to work collaboratively (we would suggest through a joint working party) with the ARU to strengthen the Competition and Club Rugby; to entrench it as the genuine third tier in Australia; and in so doing to assist in remediating the ARU’s financial problems. This would require ARU to:

• set aside the proposed strategies pending further discussions;

• provide us with full access to financial and planning data for ARU and the Australian Super 15 franchises; and

• guarantee that no attempt will be made to impose changes during the 2014 season, to allow careful and considered discussions to take place.

You can be assured of the goodwill of the SRU and the Clubs in this respect. All of us want Rugby to flourish in Australia.


If the ARU is prepared to proceed in this way, it will have our full cooperation.

Yours sincerely





Rob Millner
President and Chairman

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Great score Dave Beat.

Hooley Dooley @ this
"We accept the existence of financial problems, but we do not accept the doomsday scenario of the disappearance of Australian Rugby within two years."

Is the Pulversier seriously suggesting that the ARU is so broke that they could go belly up in two years?

Great legacy left from JO'N.

Looks like it is back to the Chook Raffles at the Pub and running the BBQ's at Bunnings to keep the ARU going.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

With the participants of this forum batting for rugby, their rugby club, and the codes future development and growth - have a read and add your support and ideas;

​

SYDNEY RUGBY UNION​

17 September 2013​

Mr. Bill Pulver

Chief Executive Officer





Dear Bill



PROPOSALS AFFECTING SYDNEY PREMIER RUGBY



The purpose of this letter is to provide a formal response, on behalf of both the Sydney Rugby Union and the Presidents of the twelve Premier Clubs, to the discussion held on 11 September 2013. In this letter, “we” refers to both the SRU and the Clubs, because there is unanimity in the views here set out.



At the outset I should say that we accept that there are serious problems, not all financial but many of them of this kind, facing the ARU and Australian Rugby generally. I am equally sure that everyone in Australian Rugby wants to see these problems fixed. At the same time, I must make crystal clear (as I think was evident at the recent meeting) that we do not accept that the solutions lie in the strategies presently being proposed by ARU. At the heart of these views are two central propositions.



One is that, while we have openly acknowledged that there are a range of aspects of the Sydney Premier Rugby Competition which could be improved, we must emphasise as strongly as possible that it remains a strong and elite competition, which continues to provide about two-thirds of Wallaby players. The Competition is the well at which Australian Rugby drinks. That fact alone should suggest that, in a broad sense, the way forward is for the ARU to work cooperatively with the Clubs and the SRU to strengthen and improve the Competition (and to do likewise in connection with the Brisbane club competition).



The other is that the strategies proposed will, in our view, not merely fail to improve Australian Rugby or the Competition, but will instead actively damage it. Starved of the players who have been nurtured and developed by the Clubs, the Competition’s standard of Rugby will inevitably fall. The financial viability of Clubs, already threatened by diminishing contributions from ARU, will be placed at greater risk. Crowds come to see high quality Rugby, not mediocre Rugby. The profile given to the Competition by ABC TV coverage, already under threat (a threat quite probably already increased by these current events) would be irreparably damaged should that coverage cease. The result would be that the well would dry up, and Australian Rugby as a whole would suffer greatly.



The strategies presented at the meeting were bereft of evidence of feasibility and financial viability. The concept of establishing teams, in areas where Rugby is not a major sport, without community support, and devoid of the tribal loyalties which make great football clubs of any code, has been exposed, by the Australian Rugby Championships, as fatally flawed. Comparisons with the Currie Cup and the Ranfurly Shield are fallacious, because they do not match like with like. Rugby does not, in Australia, have the same profile as it does in South Africa or New Zealand. Proposing essentially the same model represents the triumph of hope over experience.



It is further disheartening for us to be presented with strategies so plainly demonstrating a want of basic understanding of Club Rugby. To take just a minor example, a proposal to start the season early, at a time when Clubs having ovals as their home grounds would be unable to use those grounds because of cricket commitments, makes us fear for the future of Australian Rugby if this represents the level of comprehension, within the ARU, of how Rugby works on the ground.



These things having been said, we do not oppose the concept of a national club competition as such, although we have doubts about the feasibility of such a competition. What is completely unacceptable, however, is that efforts of this kind should damage Sydney and Brisbane club competitions by withdrawing over 50 players from them, and in so doing spending an unspecified (but obviously very substantial) amount of money which could be much better spent supporting these competitions which are, in reality, already the academies.



In summary, nothing presented at the meeting appears to offer any realistic prospect of improvement – indeed quite the reverse.



We accept the existence of financial problems, but we do not accept the doomsday scenario of the disappearance of Australian Rugby within two years. No Australian government – certainly not the recently elected one – would suffer the collapse of the Wallabies, and Rugby as an international level sport. Thus we think the task is to devise a plan, in conjunction with government, business, and the Rugby community, to remediate the problems over time, and not to propose a revolution in the pious hope of reaping instant rewards.



To that end, we stand prepared – as was foreshadowed at the meeting – to work collaboratively (we would suggest through a joint working party) with the ARU to strengthen the Competition and Club Rugby; to entrench it as the genuine third tier in Australia; and in so doing to assist in remediating the ARU’s financial problems. This would require ARU to:

• set aside the proposed strategies pending further discussions;

• provide us with full access to financial and planning data for ARU and the Australian Super 15 franchises; and

• guarantee that no attempt will be made to impose changes during the 2014 season, to allow careful and considered discussions to take place.

You can be assured of the goodwill of the SRU and the Clubs in this respect. All of us want Rugby to flourish in Australia.


If the ARU is prepared to proceed in this way, it will have our full cooperation.

Yours sincerely





Rob Millner
President and Chairman

Seems like more of the same old stuff to me.