Shute Shield 2013

[the coach]

And it might be worth us remembering that 1999 was the year that Eastwood won its first first grade premiership, after 50 years of trying, and almost going broke - in fact I think they did go broke, with debts of a mill or so, before they were bailed out by North Ryde RSL Club.


So a good funding source is invaluable, as we all know. But obviously Eastwood had a reasonable cadre of volunteers, supporters, and sponsors.

Although it took them 50 years to win they were competitive for many years before 1999 and made the playoffs fairly regularly. If we're drawing a parallel with Penrith's current plight then I'd suggest it's very hard to see any light at the end of their tunnel without significant outside intervention.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

I understand and accept your point.
But I have seen many scrums where both teams appeared to engage early or where the difference in engagement is so slight and it is CLEAR that neither side has gained any advantage. I think there's an opportunity for the referee in these cases to delay the put in of the ball (as they already do on some occasions) until the scrum steadies and / or play an advantage.

Anyway the new scrum calls are going to fix all this so the problem will no longer exist

For these marginal situations, I think it would be better to play on rather than play advantage. The only potential problem is that if the side who engaged marginally later feels that they need to adjust at the next scrum, then this will likely become a problem that the referee has to resolve later.

 

[Gibbo]

Early engagement and hinge-ing are going the way of rucking. They aren't long for this game.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[thecow]

I understand and accept your point.
But I have seen many scrums where both teams appeared to engage early or where the difference in engagement is so slight and it is CLEAR that neither side has gained any advantage. I think there's an opportunity for the referee in these cases to delay the put in of the ball (as they already do on some occasions) until the scrum steadies and / or play an advantage.

Anyway the new scrum calls are going to fix all this so the problem will no longer exist

In my experience, early in the game if I have the situation where both teams go early, I would reset and have a quick chat. Later in the game, would be dependent if we are having a good scrum day or not. If we haven't had a problem all day, I would probably play on and have a quiet word at the next scrum.

 

[the coach]

In my experience, early in the game if I have the situation where both teams go early, I would reset and have a quick chat. Later in the game, would be dependent if we are having a good scrum day or not. If we haven't had a problem all day, I would probably play on and have a quiet word at the next scrum.

Perfect!

 

[wamberal]

Although it took them 50 years to win they were competitive for many years before 1999 and made the playoffs fairly regularly. If we're drawing a parallel with Penrith's current plight then I'd suggest it's very hard to see any light at the end of their tunnel without significant outside intervention.

I am not drawing any parallels, just indulging in a bit of reminiscence - but it is hard to imagine a club like yours going 50 years between first grade premierships!

Speaking of which, the battles between the Wicks and Parramatta in the good old days were sensational (maybe not if you were a Randwick supporter).


Let us all hope that Penriff gets a first grade premiership in our lifetimes. If they do, it will mean that rugby is finally doing what it should be doing, being genuinely available to the whole metropolitan area.

 

[the coach]

I am not drawing any parallels, just indulging in a bit of reminiscence - but it is hard to imagine a club like yours going 50 years between first grade premierships!

Speaking of which, the battles between the Wicks and Parramatta in the good old days were sensational (maybe not if you were a Randwick supporter).


Let us all hope that Penriff gets a first grade premiership in our lifetimes. If they do, it will mean that rugby is finally doing what it should be doing, being genuinely available to the whole metropolitan area.

Things will never be as good as they were in the old days....but then again they never were!

I fear the NSWRU will snuff out Penrith's future sooner rather than later. With all the talk of reducing to 10 teams so full home and away can return it's hard to see how they can survive without merging with another club.

Hope I'm wrong though.

 

[thecow]

Just putting it out here - this came up on the CAS thread.

What do you guys think the standard of refereeing has been like in the Shute Shield? At the moment Australian refereeing is in a transition phase, with only Steve Walsh (if we can count him) getting regular test matches, but with talented younger referees knocking on the door (i.e. Andrew Lees, Angus Gardner), and a few in the Shute Shield knocking on the door for Super Rugby

 

[the coach]

Just putting it out here - this came up on the CAS thread.

What do you guys think the standard of refereeing has been like in the Shute Shield? At the moment Australian refereeing is in a transition phase, with only Steve Walsh (if we can count him) getting regular test matches, but with talented younger referees knocking on the door (i.e. Andrew Lees, Angus Gardner), and a few in the Shute Shield knocking on the door for Super Rugby

I'd suggest James Leckie and Ian Smith are both up there with the 2 you have mentioned and I think they've both at least ref'd at S15 level. I think the standard at SS 1st grade level is pretty good particularly when you compare them to some of the questionable refereeing performances we've seen in S15 and internationals over the last couple of years. Hopefully some of these guys will progress through to be regular test refs. I think at one stage we may have had 4 (Dickenson, Marshall, Erickson and one from Qld?) on the international roster.

I also have a theory that referees who spend most of their time refereeing tests (under the watchful eyes of the international board) are too pedantic when they come back to the SS. I'd rather have guys who normally ref at club level doing the playoffs as they are more in synch with the game at that level. I've seen a couple of GFs spoiled by refs thinking they are being auditioned for the World Cup final.

Although we all rubbish the ref from time to time we don't have anywhere near the problems some other sports (eg cricket) have with the quality of decision making when it comes to major decisions eg try v no try IMO.

 

[Stag XV]

Just putting it out here - this came up on the CAS thread.

What do you guys think the standard of refereeing has been like in the Shute Shield? At the moment Australian refereeing is in a transition phase, with only Steve Walsh (if we can count him) getting regular test matches, but with talented younger referees knocking on the door (i.e. Andrew Lees, Angus Gardner), and a few in the Shute Shield knocking on the door for Super Rugby

I'd probably rank Anthony Moyes up there with Walsh. He refereed well at SS level a season or two ago, but seems to have moved permanently to the World Sevens circuit. Would be good to see him move back to the full version of the game when the speed of 7's takes its toll.

 

[Andrew B Cox]

I actually prefer guys like Angus Gardner, Ian Smith and James Leckie to Steve Walsh. If you ever get an opportunity to listen to Walsh on the sports ears, you'd be surprised at the way he talks to players. The other guys empathy towards game management is in my opinion superior, and less 'hollywood'. I agree that Moyes is good, and although I haven't always had good results with him, Nathan Pearce is a solid ref.

But bring back George Ayoub. I always loved it when he was on my games

 

[Knuckles]

Ok, here we go. Strap yourselves in.

The standard of refereeing in SS is just as culpable for the terribel state of the game in this state (and probably country) as any major balls up Dingo Deans, Dave Nucifora and Jim L'Estrange ever committed.

The referee's department is nothing short of bureaucratic egotistical game destroyers.

They are encouraged to referee based on pre-conceptions of teams performance rather than just call it as they see it.

They are a protected species and are not allowed to be constructively criticised. Thus any mistakes they make, of which there are plenty, are not pointed out and the referee continues to regularly make the same mistakes in every match.

The health of the game is on it's death bed when the quality of the match is determined by the appointment officer.

 

[I like to watch]

I disagree, I watch between 3 & 6 matches a week.
Of course there are errors in each game, refs are human and there are many many 50/50 calls each game.
rarely do I feel that the ref either ruined the game or changed the result.
Occasionally I think the ref had a poor game.
I think they are at an acceptable standard.

 

[hawktrain]

Top 3 SS refs for me are Leckie, Gardner and Andrew Lees. They all work well with the players and keep them figuratively onside, whilst letting the game play itself out rather than being pedantic. Some of Leckie's chat with the players in the Easts v Wests TV game last week was great, really calm and not talking down to them, talking one human being to another. Another good ref who I don't see much now is Nathan Pearce, not sure if he's gone back to just doing local club games rather than SS.

Agreed re: Steve Walsh's manner with players. He's far too abrasive for me, as someone who is on both sides if the whistle on a weekly basis. As a ref, you don't want to become confrontational with the players but Walsh seems to love doing so. As a captain, it's a really strange situation when the ref is coming at you, almost the opposite of what it usually is. You don't know whether to go to his level and incite a heated debate, or to try and stay calm and cop the ref being a bit short with you.

 

[Knuckles]

I disagree, I watch between 3 & 6 matches a week.
Of course there are errors in each game, refs are human and there are many many 50/50 calls each game.
rarely do I feel that the ref either ruined the game or changed the result.
Occasionally I think the ref had a poor game.
I think they are at an acceptable standard.

Not surprisingly I disagree with you there ILTW.

It is the complete lack of consistency that is just plain unacceptable. In nearly all of the games I watch, which is 1 game live a week, the ABC game I have recorded on I.Q and then the videos of games sent to me by a couple of club coaches the inconsistency at breakdown is just a disgrace. And the disturbing part of it, is that it's not game to game, but within the games. The application of 'the gate' for example is significantly different to each team and significantly different in the 1st minute to what it is in the last. Yes, people make errors, and yes for the most part, refs are human, but people who usually make mistakes are advised as such and asked to rectify them. That does not go on within the refereeing community obviously. Because if it did, the inconsistencies wouldn't be happening as regularly.

With the ITM Cup about to start, have a look at the way the game is refereed there and then tell me if the game here, ANY game, is refereed with the same approach and philosophies

 

[Knuckles]

I'd probably rank Anthony Moyes up there with Walsh. He refereed well at SS level a season or two ago, but seems to have moved permanently to the World Sevens circuit. Would be good to see him move back to the full version of the game when the speed of 7's takes its toll.

I'll have what he's having................

Moyes has been dropped to Colts!

 

[Knuckles]

I actually prefer guys like Angus Gardner, Ian Smith and James Leckie to Steve Walsh. If you ever get an opportunity to listen to Walsh on the sports ears, you'd be surprised at the way he talks to players. The other guys empathy towards game management is in my opinion superior, and less 'hollywood'. I agree that Moyes is good, and although I haven't always had good results with him, Nathan Pearce is a solid ref.

But bring back George Ayoub. I always loved it when he was on my games

Any Warringah supporters/players/coaches care to comment on the names mentioned above?

 

[BellyTwoBlues]

Spot on Bruce. I noticed a few comments from Parra on twitter voicing their disagreements.

BellyTwoBlues care to elaborate? Haven't heard from you in a while

Not sure I'm allowed to.

 

[lincoln]

Not sure I'm allowed to.

Belly, just keep us informed as to what is happening at the Two Blues - don't need opinion just the info (eg will my favourite young player Evan O get back on the park anytime soon?) Cheers

 

[thecow]

The reason why Moyes has been doing Colts - the speed of the game at Colts level is seen to be the most similar to Sevens. Fitness is a HUGE factor in refereeing Sevens rugby